Gunner89 wrote:

Was a bit sore loser-ish walking straight down the tunnel there.

Not really.

Fowling and kicking people is sore loser ish though.

Ricky1985 wrote:

Proof wrote:

If you are the GOAT, you can't be 0-4 in major finals with Argentina and also failing to qualify from a group with Iceland, Nigeria and Croatia while missing a crucial penalty. No matter how you look at it, that's going to taint Messi's legacy.

It's a team game. Winning or losing is about so much more than Lionel Messi.

I feel sorry for him having to play in this shambolic setup the Argentineans have put together. He's got no chance.

They're not even definitely out yet.

Proof wrote:

Tony Montana wrote:

Why? 

If you are the GOAT, you can't be 0-4 in major finals with Argentina and also failing to qualify from a group with Iceland, Nigeria and Croatia while missing a crucial penalty. No matter how you look at it, that's going to taint Messi's legacy.

He dragged his side to a World Cup Final they should have never made. Cristiano Ronaldo's Portugal finished 3rd to USA. If there is an argument on such flimsy lines let it not be stuck in some time capsule. I am not saying Messi is the GOAT but don't reduce the discussion to this. 

Today's lineup had Rakitic and Modric vs Mascherano and Enzo Perez. What does Messi do about it ?

I really hope Iceland win tomorrow. It'd probably mean curtains for Argentina even if they beat Nigeria in their final game. -3 in goal difference is nasty.

Gunner89 wrote:

There's always been reports that he has a major say in how the team is set-up.

There is no way he wants Mascherano and Enzo Perez v/s Rakitic and Modric. No way. 

Klaus wrote:

I really hope Iceland win tomorrow. It'd probably mean curtains for Argentina even if they beat Nigeria in their final game. -3 in goal difference is nasty.

Yeah was thinking the same, what a story that would be.

Proof wrote:

Tony Montana wrote:

Why? 

If you are the GOAT, you can't be 0-4 in major finals with Argentina and also failing to qualify from a group with Iceland, Nigeria and Croatia while missing a crucial penalty. No matter how you look at it, that's going to taint Messi's legacy.

This is not basketball. If Higuain had converted a couple of his 100% chances in those Copa and WC finals would that make Messi the GOAT then?

It's a ridiculous non-debate. He's performed at insane levels for the last 12 months ranking 1st in literally every single statistic in La Liga, he's then part of this shower of piss for a couple weeks and his status in the game is defined by it?

Gunner89 wrote:

Ricky1985 wrote:

It's a team game. Winning or losing is about so much more than Lionel Messi.

I feel sorry for him having to play in this shambolic setup the Argentineans have put together. He's got no chance.

There's always been reports that he has a major say in how the team is set-up.

There are reports about a lot of things, doesn't change the fact that he has zero chance to shine in a team put together that poorly.

If people use this as a stick to beat Messi with then they have fallen into the trap of believing that football is one team's best player vs another team's best player. That's the narrative of modern football and it's utterly idiotic. Messi would have absolutely destroyed that Argentinean defence tonight were he wearing a Croatia shirt, for example.

Germany and Argentina out. What a start that would be.

Rohit wrote:

Germany and Argentina out. What a start that would be.

Pity Tunisia couldn't hold on, otherwise there was a decent chance England could have followed ffs.

Proof is right. All this failure at international level does taint Messis legacy and if they go out of this group and that's his international career over then he can't be considered the GOAT. One of the best ever sure but not the best.

Rohit wrote:

Germany and Argentina out. What a start that would be.

Doubt both will go out. Germany should still go through.

jones wrote:

Proof wrote:

If you are the GOAT, you can't be 0-4 in major finals with Argentina and also failing to qualify from a group with Iceland, Nigeria and Croatia while missing a crucial penalty. No matter how you look at it, that's going to taint Messi's legacy.

This is not basketball. If Higuain had converted a couple of his 100% chances in those Copa and WC  finals would that make Messi the GOAT then?

It's a ridiculous non-debate. He's performed at insane levels for the last 12 months ranking 1st in literally every single statistic in La Liga, he's then part of this shower of piss for a couple weeks and his status in the game is defined by it?

Yes, shitty international games are apparently the best measure of a player's worth.

Modric and Rakitic were incredible tonight.

The GOAT debate is a fallacy since I don't think it's ever one that can be settled given the number of variables and the time periods being discussed.

What I can say is that I've never seen a footballer play at the level Messi has - particularly from 2009 to 2013. Maybe he did need the support of Xavi and Iniesta to achieve that but the end result has yet to be matched by anyone.

Clrnc wrote:

Rohit wrote:

Germany and Argentina out. What a start that would be.

Pity Tunisia couldn't hold on, otherwise there was a decent chance England could have followed ffs.

Who do you want to win?

Gunner89 wrote:

Ricky1985 wrote:

It's a team game. Winning or losing is about so much more than Lionel Messi.

I feel sorry for him having to play in this shambolic setup the Argentineans have put together. He's got no chance.

There's always been reports that he has a major say in how the team is set-up.

Isn't that further evidence of how broken Argentina's system is?

In all the GOAT debate hysterics these days, people forget that Cruyff was better than all of them

Mirth wrote:

The GOAT debate is a fallacy since I don't think it's ever one that can be settled given the number of variables and the time periods being discussed.

What I can say is that I've never seen a footballer play at the level Messi has - particularly from 2009 to 2013. Maybe he did need the support of Xavi and Iniesta to achieve that but the end result has yet to be matched by anyone.

I feel the same way, and I couldnt care less what he does or does not do with a ramshackle Argentina team, in a tournament where the football is so far below the standard set by the Champions League, that it's almost comical.