Sexual Harassment Allegations: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Sexual Harassment Allegations

Claudius

I think this moment is important. This is the toughest crime to be a victim of. You can't speak up because you'll end up being the one put on trial instead of your perpetrator. For once victims can have the courage to come out and say 'he did it'. It's unusual because I'm a dogged believer in the rule of law and due process, and this falls completely outside that. But I also recognise that due process and rule of law have completely failed sexual assault victims and we need an overhaul of how we think about the entire process of reporting and trying these cases to make it more comfortable for victims who have already been quite traumatised as it is. So let this moment ride - and let's hope that no opportunists violate it.

We will, however, still need the real actions long term. Companies will need to do their part to train all staff to create a more caring environment in terms of what we say to each other and how we treat each other. And that also includes creating mechanisms for reporting powerful men without fear of professional retribution. That will be hard to implement because many of us work in environments where 21 year old young women staring out will make a mere fraction of what a 50 year old veteran man makes, creating a dangerous power dynamic that facilitates some of the types of abuse we hear about. It's systematic change - in our corporates, our homes, the courts, our police stations, our college systems. It's a lot. But this initial conversation will help us surface the pervasiveness of this cancer

jones

Agree with the first paragraph, even if it still seems absurd to me that a fucking hashtag empowers women to speak up. By all means use the current revelations to speak up, but does it really have to be via Twitter?

I also think that while sexual harassment is an issue in any industry part of this disgusting dynamic is inherent to Hollywood specifically. I'm trying to imagine someone at my work place, even the CEO and an intern, casually getting into this Louie CK kind of situation and I can't wrap my head around it.

Also I think it's wrong to conflate creepy behaviour such as that with actual rape as seems to be the case with Weinstein. One clearly needs medical help, the other obviously a jail cell

arsedocmd

Hannity revisiting all the bill Clinton stories one by one tonight.

flobaba

What a champ. Man of the people

Qwiss

arsedoc md wrote:
Hannity revisiting all the bill Clinton stories one by one tonight.

Hannity is scum but those stories deserve to be revisited by someone with less of an axe to grind. We can't claim to believe women and ignore Juanita Broderick or call her a liar. We know Clinton was using his power for sex with young vulnerable women in the work place, he's a harasser at the very least. Most likely worse.

Its telling that 3 of the last 5 US presidents have been accused of rape and sexual assault by numerous women.

goon

jones wrote:
I also think that while sexual harassment is an issue in any industry part of this disgusting dynamic is inherent to Hollywood specifically. I'm trying to imagine someone at my work place, even the CEO and an intern, casually getting into this Louie CK kind of situation and I can't wrap my head around it.

Agree completely, it requires a certain walled off culture to thrive that I don't think exists in most workplaces.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Agree completely, it requires a certain walled off culture to thrive that I don't think exists in most workplaces.

I think it probably isn't quite as severe in most workplaces but it still happens. I know in my wifes work that one of their top management people cost them a big settlement because he kept making advances after one of the young female staff. She got a pay off but he suffered in no way at all, still got a promotion a few months later, still got his bonus, etc

y va marquer

goon wrote:
jones wrote:
I also think that while sexual harassment is an issue in any industry part of this disgusting dynamic is inherent to Hollywood specifically. I'm trying to imagine someone at my work place, even the CEO and an intern, casually getting into this Louie CK kind of situation and I can't wrap my head around it.

Agree completely, it requires a certain walled off culture to thrive that I don't think exists in most workplaces.

It does not require a walled off culture to thrive.
You take it too literally if you're basing your assumption on the harassment or abuse happening in the actual place of work.
Perhaps you need to question what happens external to the office location - on work nights out, business trips etc

goon

No I absolutely acknowledge that y va, hell the Mrs was stalked by a colleague to the point where he followed her on holiday.

But it's all relative, there's industries like Hollywood, or even just certain organisations or social groups where 'thrive' takes on a whole new meaning.

jones

People cheat on their wives and husbands when on business trips, they are more likely to make advances when on work nights out (ie drunk) and so on, often enough those advances are inappropriate as they are in any other bar or pub.

Those situations do not foster a culture where people feel safe to masturbate into a potted plant in front of a colleague and think they can get away with it. That's clearly a situation where the person in question has so much confidence in their status that they feel they don't need to care about the consequences, ie a celebrity

Burnwinter

I've seen a couple of colleagues sacked for sexual harassment and abuse, as I mentioned.

One of them was literally sacked for exposing himself while masturbating to a young woman colleague he was doing field work with, after dinner at their accommodation.

Just a typical male-dominated engineering and surveying company, and one with a relatively strong policy on such things that saw this man sacked and sent home immediately after a complaint was made against him. The guy that did it was known to be "on the spectrum" and was a bit socially maladjusted.

y va marquer

jones wrote:
People cheat on their wives and husbands when on business trips, they are more likely to make advances when on work nights out (ie drunk) and so on, often enough those advances are inappropriate as they are in any other bar or pub.

Those situations do not foster a culture where people feel safe to masturbate into a potted plant in front of a colleague and think they can get away with it. That's clearly a situation where the person in question has so much confidence in their status that they feel they don't need to care about the consequences, ie a celebrity

I am not talking about "cheating" and "inappropriate" advances.
I am talking about harassment and abuse on company nights out / business trips / locations external to the office.
The grey, not actually at work area, places where male employees feel sufficiently confident that their behaviour will go unreported that they don't care about the consequences of their actions.

jones

Burnwinter wrote:
I've seen a couple of colleagues sacked for sexual harassment and abuse, as I mentioned.

One of them was literally sacked for exposing himself while masturbating to a young woman colleague he was doing field work with, after dinner at their accommodation.

Just a typical male-dominated engineering and surveying company, and one with a relatively strong policy on such things that saw this man sacked and sent home immediately after a complaint was made against him. The guy that did it was known to be "on the spectrum" and was a bit socially maladjusted.

Yeah but then you're Australian, your whole country is a bit on the spectrum

y va marquer

goon wrote:
No I absolutely acknowledge that y va, hell the Mrs was stalked by a colleague to the point where he followed her on holiday.

But it's all relative, there's industries like Hollywood, or even just certain organisations or social groups where 'thrive' takes on a whole new meaning.

I think the testament and accounts of the women who don't work in Hollywood, or these "organisations or social groups", may not support this theory.

There seems to be a reluctance to accept that abusive men, molesters and pervs who prey on women, "thrive" in any environment where there is the possibility of accessing women in vulnerable situations or circumstances.

arsedocmd

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/settlements-congress-sexual-harassment/index.html

Coombs

@ Burnsy, "To change behaviour, we create consequences."

I don't really believe you really believe that Burns. If that worked, so would monarchy. The days of the disciplinary societies are well and truly behind us. It's just such an autocratic and outdated way of thinking.

jones

There seems to be a misunderstanding of what the word "thrive" means. There's a reason why the likes of Jimmy Savile, Harvey Weinstein or Bill Clinton were/are extremely successful and prominent men and not plumbers or construction workers.

Coombs

Plenty of plumbers and construction workers whove done what they've done, and far beyond as well.

jones

You're completely missing the point. Plenty of plumbers who've done what Jimmy fucking Savile has done?

goon

y va marquer wrote:
goon wrote:
No I absolutely acknowledge that y va, hell the Mrs was stalked by a colleague to the point where he followed her on holiday.

But it's all relative, there's industries like Hollywood, or even just certain organisations or social groups where 'thrive' takes on a whole new meaning.

I think the testament and accounts of the women who don't work in Hollywood, or these "organisations or social groups", may not support this theory.

There seems to be a reluctance to accept that abusive men, molesters and pervs who prey on women, "thrive" in any environment where there is the possibility of accessing women in vulnerable situations or circumstances.

But that's precisely the point, the wider environment created by Hollywood and for the likes of Savile means these guys can do a lot more and for a lot longer without worrying about repercussions. They empower the perpetrators, hence they thrive.

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