• The Houseboat

  • Other clubs transfer thread Summer 2017 ( Barcelona sign Dembele)

Lukaku is a proven, consistent goalscorer who does it at a very high level, and is arguably not in his prime yet. What's not to like?

Daz wrote:
Gazza M wrote:

it's not about finding a perfect striker. i'd happily take a slightly less clinical striker if he makes the team player better as a whole, like benzema at real. i think morata would've been that guy for united so i'm glad they're not getting him

lukaku will always have good individual stats. no arguement on that

Goals are not 'just another stat' though, they are the defining point of football. If a player is scoring goals at a very good rate, how is he doing anything other than making the team play better? Are we talking 'better' as in a subjective way (ie 'beautiful football') or are we talking 'better' in an objective sense as in putting the ball in the net and increasing the odds of winning games/trophies?

So he makes a more positive impact than a player like Thierry? Or Alexis? Or Bergkamp?

It's an incredibly simplistic argument. Goals are great but if your touch and other aspects of your game are impeding the quality of the teams attacking game then you will find yourself falling short quite often.

And for all the talk of Lukaku playing with substandard players at Everton, going have a look at how many of his goals were laid on a plate for him.

Lukaku is meant to be all about goals but he has only had one season where he's scored more than 20 league goals.

goon wrote:
Daz wrote:

Goals are not 'just another stat' though, they are the defining point of football. If a player is scoring goals at a very good rate, how is he doing anything other than making the team play better? Are we talking 'better' as in a subjective way (ie 'beautiful football') or are we talking 'better' in an objective sense as in putting the ball in the net and increasing the odds of winning games/trophies?

So he makes a more positive impact than a player like Thierry? Or Alexis? Or Bergkamp?

It's an incredibly simplistic argument. Goals are great but if your touch and other aspects of your game are impeding the quality of the teams attacking game then you will find yourself falling short quite often.

That's not my argument though. But yes I do believe that a very good 'pure striker' can be as effective as a more 'complete/creative forward'. Different roles, but both can be equally effective/important. People tend to underrate the effectiveness of pure strikers these days, opinions on Lukaku just being one current example.

A great touch, great movement and great finishing are not attributes for a complete/creative forward though, they're pretty vital attributes to aid a great goalscorer or pure striker as you put it.

When all is said and done, there's a reason why Lukaku's goalscoring rate isn't much better than Giroud's over the last 3 seasons and is nowhere near even Kane. There's a reason why he's very streky and has long periods where he looks like a donky. It's because he's lacking in many areas, even for a goalscorer.

Gazza M wrote:

maybe. but it remains to be seen if his goals actually help his teams win trophies, and he's not just stuffing the stat sheet

[Twitter]

Yeah, really hope we keep Giroud.

Ricky1985 wrote:
Gazza M wrote:

maybe. but it remains to be seen if his goals actually help his teams win trophies, and he's not just stuffing the stat sheet

[Twitter]

That's pretty telling. Stat padder. Hope United sign him instead of Morata who is the opposite of a stat padding striker.

In total, Morata's league goals for Real Madrid last season were directly responsible for 13 points as Zinedine Zidane's men edged out Barcelona to win their first La Liga title in five years. Even Cristiano Ronaldo's 25 league goals only yielded one more point than that.

Indeed, Morata's goals were more valuable than those of Gareth Bale, Karim Benzema, James Rodriguez and Isco combined. In the Champions League, the 24-year-old also scored a last-minute winner against Sporting. These were often clutch goals at key moments.

It was the same with Juve, turned up in nearly every big CL game I watched him with a top performance.

Seems bizarre that United are leaking that they've agreed a 75m fee while Everton are insisting nothing has been agreed.

Ricky1985 wrote:
Gazza M wrote:

maybe. but it remains to be seen if his goals actually help his teams win trophies, and he's not just stuffing the stat sheet

[Twitter]

Yeah because if you score 2 goals at White Hart Lane and your team mates still manage to concede 3 your goals don't get you points. How thats a strike against Lukaku to some people is kind of baffling though.

Another example of ridiculous use of 'stats'

goon wrote:

A great touch, great movement and great finishing are not attributes for a complete/creative forward though, they're pretty vital attributes to aid a great goalscorer or pure striker as you put it.

They are good attributes to have, but pace and power are also pretty useful. But again you're still missing the point and muddying the argument. There is not one type of forward who can score alot of goals and be an asset to a team. Lukaku is a good and effective forward who consistently scores a bunch of goals. It's just a fact. You may not like his style or think he is complete, but your opinions or prefernces don't change that fact.

JazzG wrote:

His all round game isn't what I'd expect for a £75m player even though his goal scoring record goes a long way in justifying his hype. His game did improve last season but at a top club where teams will sit back and not give him space to run into it will need to improve further.

TBF he's about as good at the big man CF role as Giroud. The fact he can play both off the shoulder and as a target man is what makes him worth £75m to United.

Daz wrote:
goon wrote:

A great touch, great movement and great finishing are not attributes for a complete/creative forward though, they're pretty vital attributes to aid a great goalscorer or pure striker as you put it.

They are good attributes to have, but pace and power are also pretty useful. But again you're still missing the point and muddying the argument. There is not one type of forward who can score alot of goals and be an asset to a team. Lukaku is a good and effective forward who consistently scores a bunch of goals. It's just a fact. You may not like his style or think he is complete, but your opinions or prefernces don't change that fact.

Right, but no one is arguing against that fact. What we're arguing is that despite that his weaknesses hamper the team in other ways. His goals alone are not enough. No team has ever won the league scoring 24 goals and the performance of his teammates are not independent of him.

Put it this way, Giroud's mins per goal ratio over the last 5 seasons is actually marginally better than Lukaku's (158 vs 153). Why have we all been crying out for a new striker for the last half decade?

Clichy has found a new club, team mates with Adebayor now.

United get consistently fucking rinsed on transfer fees 😆

The prices for players have gone crazy, like London property prices!

Rooney should be free anyway. He's finished.

Talk this deal is £75m + addons. Also includes Rooney joining Everton on a free contract.

Qwiss! wrote:

TBF he's about as good at the big man CF role as Giroud. The fact he can play both off the shoulder and as a target man is what makes him worth £75m to United.

Giroud's hold up play and link up play is far superior imo, like you say what he does have on Giroud is he can play off the shoulder and that is where his pace and power becomes valuable. However the ball sticks to Giroud and he has shown he can link up superbly with players around him.

Gunner89 wrote:

Rooney should be free anyway. He's finished.

I actually think Rooney will do well at Everton. Probably depends who they put in front of him, but as a Number 10 with the attack built around him, I think he'll put some good numbers up and have a good impact on their game.

[Twitter]
Not even aware of what his agent has said, but found it interesting just how grovelling he is being made to be in that video. PSG and there owners think an awful lot of themselves.

goon wrote:

Put it this way, Giroud's mins per goal ratio over the last 5 seasons is actually marginally better than Lukaku's (158 vs 153). Why have we all been crying out for a new striker for the last half decade?

Because Lukaku is only coming into his peak years while Giroud is leaving them.

Chelsea match yaniteds bid. Get the popcorn

Chelsea is still his first choice anyway.

Qwiss! wrote:
goon wrote:

Put it this way, Giroud's mins per goal ratio over the last 5 seasons is actually marginally better than Lukaku's (158 vs 153). Why have we all been crying out for a new striker for the last half decade?

Because Lukaku is only coming into his peak years while Giroud is leaving them.

Stop talking sense Qs

I don't understand how people can see much upside with lukaku. He's going to keep doing what he's been doing, but whether that translates to a big club is a huge question mark given his style of play and limitations.

You can be a great scorer while limiting your team in other ways. By this logic replacing benzema with the vastly more clinical lukaku would put real Madrid into a whole new stratosphere. Not many Chelsea fan seem to feel replacing costa with lukaku makes them a better side either, and lukaku has comfortably outscored him the last 2 seasons

United confirm Lukaku deal short of medical and personal terms. Would be funny if he Ramsey's them.

Daz wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:

Because Lukaku is only coming into his peak years while Giroud is leaving them.

Stop talking sense Qs

I thought it was undeniable fact you were buying into not potential? 😆

Stop moving goalposts Daz.

Qwiss! wrote:
JazzG wrote:

His all round game isn't what I'd expect for a £75m player even though his goal scoring record goes a long way in justifying his hype. His game did improve last season but at a top club where teams will sit back and not give him space to run into it will need to improve further.

TBF he's about as good at the big man CF role as Giroud. The fact he can play both off the shoulder and as a target man is what makes him worth £75m to United.

That's just not true though. Lukaku's size is deceptive both in him being way faster than you'd assume but also in him being a horrible target man, ask any Everton fan and they'll concur. Giroud is so far superior in that part of his game it's not even close

This is great. Whoever gets him will have wasted a ridiculous sum on a great athlete and painfully shit footballer. Hope Milan can sign Morata in the mean time leaving one of them strikerless next season

Tambourine Man wrote:

United confirm Lukaku deal short of medical and personal terms. Would be funny if he Ramsey's them.

True but Man Utd hold a big advantage in that they are giving Everton Rooney as part of the deal. I reckon Everton would be much more likely to take that even if Chelsea offer a bit more.

Lukaku has gotten better and better each season. There is a reason why United and Chelsea are both willing to pay big money for him. The idea that he holds the team back while scoring loads of goals takes a real stretch of the imagination.

All that said though I hope he's a massive flop for United (or Chelsea). I don't think he'll score as many under Mourinho as he did for Everton this year anyway, simply because of the way Mourinho operates, he never really has his strikers scoring loads of goals. If he gets 20 it'll be a very good season for him.

goon wrote:
Daz wrote:

Stop talking sense Qs

I thought it was undeniable fact you were buying into not potential? 😆

Stop moving goalposts Daz.

No goalposts being moved by me mate so quit being a knob. You're the one that's been muddying the debate here by bringing up Henry, Bergkamp and complete forwards blah blah blah. None of which are things I've mentioned. As I've said along, Lukaku is a very good striker who has shown he can score goals consistently, and that shouldn't be disregarded just because he has limitations to his game (which very few 24 year old strikers don't) or because you or others might have a preference for a different type of forward. Sure, the money he seems to be moving for is mental, but that's the market's fault, not the player's.

Your original point was essentially that goals are all that matter and that the other aspects of his game that are weak are just asthetic. As of yet you've not countered a single one of my points, whether it's by dismissing the Giroud question with a one liner (one could argue you were being a Knob), or completely ignoring my point about how his limitations could effect the whole teams effectiveness when attacking. All you keep saying now is he's a good forward who scores goals, a point that no one is arguing with you about.

JazzG wrote:
Tambourine Man wrote:

United confirm Lukaku deal short of medical and personal terms. Would be funny if he Ramsey's them.

True but Man Utd hold a big advantage in that they are giving Everton Rooney as part of the deal. I reckon Everton would be much more likely to take that even if Chelsea offer a bit more.

Chelsea are unwilling to pay a massive "commission" fee to Raiola too apparently. If anyone ever wanted evidence of footballers being stupid, look no further than these guys who effectively allow their agent to dictate where they are going to play.

please let them spend 150m on dier and lukaku