Arsenal vs. Watford Tue 31st Jan 19.45: Page 23 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal vs. Watford Tue 31st Jan 19.45

Bold Tone

If that first half was tactical, in any way, i really must give up watching football.

lorddulaarsenal

God I so hope Wenger doesn't sign a new deal

dreamlord

Rohit wrote:
In my opinion we start games with a greater desire to keep the opposition out initially than actually focus on scoring. Invariably we let one in early in such games. We can't defend and when there isn't full conviction in our attacking play like there is when we are chasing games, we play extremely nervously.

Wenger needs to stop cheating himself if anything and push the team to attack. We were cavalier and used to lose like that and it was fine. Watching these lousy, nervous, cautious starts which end up with us chasing games is intolerable.

I agree. It's become a trend to have 0 shots on target while the opposition has a goal or two. It's only after that that we wake up and start creating chances again.

It wasn't like this early in the season. We were attacking with much more intensity from the start. I want to see Sanchez up front again, because with Giroud we lack that intensity.

General

Gazza M wrote:
probably won't be popular, but i really feel we always start flat and unsure when giroud starts. everyone just seems to be clueless when he starts, and there's a real lack of energy or forward momentum. our performance is always tied to how well we attack and move the ball, the giroud starting just seems blunt the flow. i'm not surprised we started creating chances as soon he came off for walcott. giroud should be a supersub, regardless of his form imo. we have to look at things wholistically rather than just stick him in whenever he knocks a few goals in

Giroud wasn't even that bad, he just couldn't survive against Watford's very physical play. They completely dominated him in the air and we had to go back to playing the ball on the floor. It's not just his scoring run that made him a starter but also the fact that others can't stay fit, so we had to move Sanchez back out wide to make up the numbers.

Clrnc

Article on ESPN picked out the exact same point as you were making.

All the talk of attitude problems should not cloud the issue of tactics. There are key strategic decisions on Wenger's part that contributed to Arsenal's struggles. The Watford match must surely spell the end of Olivier Giroud's run as the starting centre-forward. While his goal record has been outstanding, the awkward truth is that Arsenal are simply a better team without the France international in the side.

It's difficult to set the tempo and stamp attacking intent on the game when you're unable to send a pass in behind the opposition defence. Arsenal need a centre-forward with greater variety to their game and in Alexis Sanchez, Danny Welbeck and Lucas Perez they have three credible candidates.

Starting Giroud also robs you of the opportunity to change and use him as a late substitute. For years, Arsenal fans have yearned for an effective "Plan B." Now that Wenger has finally found one, he seems curiously determined to employ him as "Plan A."

http://www.espnfc.com/club/arsenal/359/blog/post/3051402/arsenal-slow-starts-spell-particularly-painful-end-to-premier-league-season

jones

I agree we look a better team with Alexis leading the line but that has little to do with this game, we played Watford at home ffs. We've beaten way stronger opposition with Giroud up front, the tactics aren't the issue our mentality or "attitude problems" are.

Qwiss

People are always poised to stick the knife into Giroud. First game without a goal and he gets blamed. We had started this run of ugly performances before Giroud was brought back in. Just another scape goat so people can avoid the £8 million elephant in the room.

goon

Except no one has said we've lost because of Giroud, that doesn't stop him from being an issue though and the £8m elephant is the one picking him regardless of what it does to our game.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Except no one has said we've lost because of Giroud, that doesn't stop him from being an issue though.

That article said "There are key strategic decisions on Wenger's part that contributed to Arsenal's struggles. The Watford match must surely spell the end of Olivier Giroud's run as the starting centre-forward." That is implying that its because of Giroud that we lost. Which is nonsense.

goon

It says there are key decisions (plural) that contributed, i.e. played a part. Picking Giroud absolutely did play a part but it doesn't mean it's the sole reason or even the main reason why we didn't perform.

Clrnc

Qwiss! wrote:
People are always poised to stick the knife into Giroud. First game without a goal and he gets blamed. We had started this run of ugly performances before Giroud was brought back in. Just another scape goat so people can avoid the £8 million elephant in the room.

I don't think the point is to blame Giroud, but to make that we have better options for our general game and we are best served with Giroud as plan B instead of A. It benefits everyone, we/he is much better when he comes off the bench.

It also allows Iwobi to play in his favoured left.

Qwiss

Iwobi should play on the left regardless of whether Giroud is up front or not. Sanchez loses nothing on the right vs left.

I don't agree that there is one way to play all season either. Good teams adapt. Bringing in Giroud turned our form around and improved us from where we were the games before his starts. People are now comparing our current form to peak Sanchez up top form rather than where we were over Xmas with Sanchez up top.

We played about as bad as we could have against Watford but it had little to do with having Giroud up top. The reason to drop Giroud now is Theos return. That is what made the attack with Sanchez at point work because we still had someone playing high up the pitch.

General

If Giroud was not a factor in that first half horror show he would not have been taken off at half time. Look he came in and did a job and should be credited, but he will never win the hearts of most Arsenal fans because of his limitations and the effects they have on the team.

Clrnc

Qwiss! wrote:
I don't agree that there is one way to play all season either. Good teams adapt.

But we don't, and more specifically Wenger don't.

He is tactically too inflexible and we loses a lot when he continuously starts Giroud. He should have picked the time to rotate and change style but he waited for an opponent to outwit us before making changes. We have a much better chance with Alexis up top than Giroud with this dinosaur at the helm.

December was bad, but I can only recall probably 2 matches that we are completely ineffectual in attack. What's also worth noting is that despite the late goals Giroud always scores for the past few matches, they all came when we were chasing the game and going long. We could have easily had a bad result against Bournemouth, WBA and Burnley.

Anzac

Too much contrast to the way we need to play and the personnel needed to do so between Sanchez or Giroud as CF.
The former enjoys space and being on the ball in his high risk v reward style which is fine as CF, but counter productive as WF as he drops deeper to cover the FB and plays from behind the line and can turn over possession trying too much on the ball. Likewise Giroud no longer looks to create/vacate space in the middle which also closes the running lanes ahead of Sanchez.

Giroud also works better with the likes of Ramsey, Walcott & Wilshere running off him in close support and playing as pivote in zone 14.

Issue of late has been AW trying to fit in both camps like he did at the start of the season.

So far as injuries go AW could have used Lucas as CF or cover for Walcott, and still looked to use Giroud from the bench in what has been our most successful period of the season.

Anzac

Clrnc wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
I don't agree that there is one way to play all season either. Good teams adapt.

But we don't, and more specifically Wenger don't.

He is tactically too inflexible and we loses a lot when he continuously starts Giroud. He should have picked the time to rotate and change style but he waited for an opponent to outwit us before making changes. We have a much better chance with Alexis up top than Giroud with this dinosaur at the helm.

December was bad, but I can only recall probably 2 matches that we are completely ineffectual in attack. What's also worth noting is that despite the late goals Giroud always scores for the past few matches, they all came when we were chasing the game and going long. We could have easily had a bad result against Bournemouth, WBA and Burnley.

In many ways Conte has been the best example of both arguments = he changed the shape & style after the loss to us early on, and yet he still makes changes within the 343 in terms of the requirements & opposition whilst still sticking with much the same style and line ups. Key points being the subtle variation of using wide WFs or playing them as a narrow 2 behind the CF as in a 3421 - makes a world of difference re being able to dominate the middle of the pitch.

« Previous Page