Clrnc wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
They didn't win the Europa League and Super Cup in 2010 before Simeone joined? They didn't have David de Gea, Courtois, Juanfran, Diego Godin, Felipe Luis, Koke, Simao, Reyes, Forlan, Aguero, Costa....all at the club before Simeone was there to have any influence whatsoever?
Sevilla won the Europa League for years but have never become a bigger club than Atletico is under Simeone now.
De Gea and Courtois was on loan which shows back in those days what Atletico status were. Juanfran, Godin, Felipe Luis did not have the reputation they do now, they were pretty average in the past and moved to Atletico for peanuts. Koke was a youth product so I don't see how that has come into equation. Simao, Reyes and Forlan are really good players but nowhere near the level of players we are talking about after Simeone took over. Aguero was a really smart buy but Costa? He was destined not to make it, going out on loan to 4 clubs and impressed at none before Simeone transformed him.
Having a good manager brings the best out of the players, ultimately increasing their value and reputation in the transfer market. If we have a top manager making our team functional, Ozil and Alexis for example will be easily worth much more if they are available in the market.
I think you made some good points but at the same time over estimated the achievements of Simeone at Atletico. Some of those players were recognised as very good or promising players before Simeone. De Gea for example was widely recognised as the next great goalkeeper to come out of Spain after Casillas. Gordin was part of the best CB partnership in Spain during his time at Villareal (although Gonzalo, who has been very unlucky with injuries, was the better of the two), I still remember them frustrating Rooney during the CL tie so much so that the granny shagger got sent off for clapping the ref. Just because he ended up at Atletico and not at Barca or Real doesn't mean he was average or not highly thought of, similar to the likes of Santi who went from Villareal to Malaga. Costa nearly moved to Liverpool (who were prepared to pay his buyout clause) just before his breakthrough season, it shows his talent was already recognised by some big clubs.You can give credit to Simeone for the likes of Juanfran who he converted from an average winger to a very good RB (think I read somewhere Simeone used to have private sessions with him on defence few times a week)
Sevilla never got as big as Atletico are now because they simply lack the resources to do so (brilliant management can only take you so far), as a club the aren't as big as the likes of Valancia, Athletico, not to talk of the likes of Madrid and Barca. Atletico on the otherhand are a huge club in Spain (3rd biggest if I'm not mistaken), who were just under performing, Simeone has taken them to were they should be ie behind the 2 biggest and richest clubs but ahead of the rest. Well that's exactly what Wenger achieved at Arsenal for so long, in fact we were outperforming the likes of Liverpool who you'd say are traditionally a bigger club than we are.
The problem for Wenger started when the petrol dollars started flowing into the league, he hasn't adapted well and has struggled since for variety of reasons: some are self inflicted, others are just the reality of life (will get back to this later). As I mentioned above, as brilliant as Simeone has been for Athletico, he's still not outperforming the the richer clubs in Spain (no matter how crap the managers are at Barca or Madrid, say hi to clueless Enrique). Now imagine 2 Sheikhs rolling in La Liga, how do you think Simeone will fare ? Mind you, he's already gone, what, 5 years without winning the league? I think it's fair to say, he'll probably take another 5-10 years without winning it again in that situation.
I think most fans would recognise under normal circumstances(with everything else being equal), we don't go into the season expecting to be favourites for the title, there's no where in Europe as far as i know where the 4th richest club goes into the season as favourites for the title, that's the reality of life. Therefore, we go into the season, hoping not 1, but 3 teams to fuck up for us to win the league even if we do everything well. My gripe with the club (Wenger) we don't prepare well enough to take advantage of any fucks up by the richer clubs, such as 2 season ago when they were all going through transition or difficult times behind the scenes, it was fucking Leicester City that took advantage of it. All down to mismanagement and lack of ambition. Think we went into the previous season without buying a single outfield player, unbelievable stuff! It's due to the same mismanagement and lack of ambition that has seen us finish behind Spurs for the 1st time in 21 years and things will only get worse if we don't wake up as a club.
I rate Wenger very highly as a manager (to me the likes of Pochettino, Klopp etc haven't proven to be any better than him), but I'm desperate for him to go. He IS part of the problem IMO. I hope he leaves this summer in dignity so that we can reboot everything and start from scratch. I still believe could do very well at a club where he doesn't have so much influence. I'd love for him to take over from Deschamps and win a trophy with France
