UK Politics Omnishambles: Page 88 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

UK Politics Omnishambles

JazzG

Mirth wrote:
However, as someone looking in I don't feel comfortable that both of Corbyn's statements invoking 'all forms of racism' and 'overstated the impact' when talking about anti-semitism. These statements are too well polished for them to not know what the implications are for that kind of language.

He knows exactly what he is doing when he made that comment, he also knows this puts him in risk of being suspended. If they don't suspend him then Starmer looks weak on anti Semitism which undermines him, if he does suspend him then Corbyn gets to be a martyr to his followers and make this out like a political witch hunt. He also knows his followers are like sheep and will lap it up and defend him no matter what he does or says. He knows whatever happens it is a win-win situation for him.

In a way this suits Starmer as I'm sure he probably wants nothing more to get rid of the previous regime.

JazzG

UK & EU have agreed a Trade Deal, thank fucking god. I look forward to stop hearing about this shit every day and we can moan and complain about something else!

Both sides needed the pressure of no deal to sit together and get shit done, otherwise this would have dragged on for years like most trade deals do.

Qwiss

Very few details out yet but looks like Boris caved on fishing. Was a ridiculous position to take in the first place.

Mirth

I think they just kicked the can on fishing 5 years down the line? But either way, I doubt the talks were ever going to fail because of something that trivial - I'm willing to bet they wanted a bargaining chip that they could trade because of how emotive it is for all involved.

From my personal perspective I feel like I've lost much of the benefits with limited upside but I knew this in 2016. Having said that, politically this is a win for Johnson and whoever voted for him. He fulfilled the mandate given to him this time last year by agreeing to limited free trade deal with no ECJ oversight and I do think he did better than May when judging against the standards of those who voted for Brexit. I suspect the relationship between the UK and EU going forward will resemble Canada's relationship with the United States once calmer heads prevail. However, seeing his poor leadership in other matters, Johnson risks becoming a single issue politician now that this is settled and there's rumours that he's out lived his purpose unless he gets his shit together.

Ray

Out of interest, what benefits did you lose?

Mirth

The ability to live, study, and work in 27 other countries, mutual recognition of qualifications, potential economic uncertainty (although this has calmed a bit, particularly in the face of a true shock like Covid). I accept my view is tinted by the fact that I live in London and therefore am more likely to take advantage of these benefits than those who are unable to but still.

Ray

Interesting to see it listed out like that. Will be interesting to see if there are any other losses that pop up which haven’t been considered.

JazzG

Qwiss! wrote:
Very few details out yet but looks like Boris caved on fishing. Was a ridiculous position to take in the first place.

From what I've seen the EU wanted 14 years transition and the UK wanted 3, they settled on 5. Until full details out hard to know who's getting the better deal.

I also don't think they gave a shit about fishing, was hyped up so UK used as a bargaining chip to get other things through. French again were making a big deal as Macron is up for re-election near year IIRC.

Mirth wrote:
From my personal perspective I feel like I've lost much of the benefits with limited upside but I knew this in 2016. Having said that, politically this is a win for Johnson and whoever voted for him. He fulfilled the mandate given to him this time last year by agreeing to limited free trade deal with no ECJ oversight and I do think he did better than May when judging against the standards of those who voted for Brexit. I suspect the relationship between the UK and EU going forward will resemble Canada's relationship with the United States once calmer heads prevail. However, seeing his poor leadership in other matters, Johnson risks becoming a single issue politician now that this is settled and there's rumours that he's out lived his purpose unless he gets his shit together.

I think the UK's relationship will improve as well. I remember reading a few years ago the EU is looking for closer integration and I don't think that ever sat well with the British. They can pursue that path now.

I think Boris has saved his skin getting this deal through but he's on thin ice. I think many in the Conservative party will feel he has served his purpose so won't hesitate to get rid. He has to use this to make his position stronger.

goon

I don’t think Boris is in trouble, he’s got a huge majority to work with.

I do wonder what it means for the political landscape in general for the UK though. The Tories have got pretty much everything they want and can shape pretty much everything they want, what else do they have to promise?

JazzG

He has got a majority but from what I’ve heard a fair few conservatives do not like the way he is governing. This deal gives him some credibility back though. Most thought they couldn’t do it and they have managed to sign a deal, though the devil will be in the details.

I think what they really want is to hold on to the seats they’ve won up north and their next battle is going to be against the SNP. They’ll win a massive majority and demand a second referendum. Now that Brexit is done and when the virus situation calms down will be interesting to see how well the SNPs popularity holds up. She’s viewed as more competent than Boris over their handling of the virus but figures show their numbers are just as bad. I listened to a podcast a while back that there is no route back into power for Labour without Scotland. If another referendum is held and they vote to stay in the union again the SNP imo are finished. Which might be why the Tories want to keep this lingering as the referendum demand is what is driving much of their popularity up north which keeps Labour out. No idea if true but an interesting theory!

Mirth

goon wrote:
I don’t think Boris is in trouble, he’s got a huge majority to work with.

I do wonder what it means for the political landscape in general for the UK though. The Tories have got pretty much everything they want and can shape pretty much everything they want, what else do they have to promise?

His majority was a gift given to him by voters to conclude the departure from the EU and reflects the level of support he had to 'get Brexit done', one way or another. I dare say he would equally retain much of this support if we crashed out with a no deal too. For the remainder of his term, the country will - by and large - let him do what he wants in terms of trade and foreign policy.

But you shouldn't read into his majority and assume it's support for him personally or the Conservatives just yet. They're still not widely loved and blamed for the chaos of the last decade. The referendum, the 2017 and 2019 elections were effectively single issue events and usually what happens once promises have been fulfilled is that the core holding it all together crumbles (much like UKIP in 2016) so Boris will have to go again in 2021 and actually have to come up with some meaningful progress because the next election is still four years away. In a way, it's good - these guys actually have to take responsibility for their decisions.

goon

I agree, I just mean he's got enough headroom that he can withstand anything but an outright revolt, and with Brexit out the way he can probably manoeuvre away from hot topics beyond COVID in the short term (I assume he'll have strong support on Scottish independence)

My big fear is Labour has lost much of the working class, or at least some of it, for good. People may have switched over Brexit, but I reckon beyond that many of those who switched simply don't identify with some of the more liberal values, sentiments and movements that's attached to the left. But time will tell.

jones

https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2021-01-04/assange-wins-the-cost-press-freedom-is-crushed-and-dissent-labelled-mental-illness/

So essentially Baraitser only denied extradition because she considers Assange to be mentally ill. You have to give her credit, I didn't see this outcome but this is the one outcome where she makes herself and the UK look more of a human rights defender than the US while still acknowledging all American grievances against him ie espionage and hacking. She even quotes a fucking joke of a CNN article on how Assange turned the Ecuadorian embassy into his command post to "meddle" in the 2016 election.

Meatwad

this brexit is some reality stranger than fiction shit.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/24/bill-for-boris-johnson-brexit-is-coming-punishingly-steep

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/26/eu-citizens-offered-financial-incentives-to-leave-uk

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/23/brexit-hit-firms-advised-government-officials-set-up-shop-in-eu

Qwiss

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/0304/1200857-good-friday-agreement/

This is not good. I never thought we'd end up worrying about this shit again.

flobaba

That sounds scary...

flobaba

What’s this I’m hearing about the royal family this morning?

How are they supposed to help kick racism out of football now? 🙁

QuincyAbeyie

It's incredible how toxic that institution and the media are, to the point where Markle didn't even want to live.

Qwiss

Its just a bunch of spoilt rich assholes airing their dirty laundry in public. I only pay attention to shit like that when some of them are good at kicking a ball.

goon

Imagine being accursed of racism and your response being 'people are too worried about Prince Phillip to care'.

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