UK Politics Omnishambles: Page 79 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

UK Politics Omnishambles

y va marquer

I'm wondering if years of being exposed to reality TV personality contests and voting have made it inevitable that characters such as Corbyn - well meaning but snippy, passive aggressive, humourless and pinched - will always be blown out of the water by the clownish, nefarious, lying buffoon types such as Boris.

Burnwinter

It really shouldn't have been a contest of personalities at all—not with such a huge gulf on both policy and the constitution and future of the union.

Not sure it was, though, there's been a lot of hot takes but the first data-backed analysis shows up how much Labour's 2017 vote was fucked and split by Brexit. Corbyn's personal unpopularity didn't help, but given the intense media campaigning against him is not terribly surprising.

goon

It should be noted that there's not many people who like Johnson either. The only thing that made him remotely popular was he was able to strongly identify himself as Mr Brexit.

speedy

y va marquer wrote:
I'm wondering if years of being exposed to reality TV personality contests and voting have made it inevitable that characters such as Corbyn - well meaning but snippy, passive aggressive, humourless and pinched - will always be blown out of the water by the clownish, nefarious, lying buffoon types such as Boris.

That's an interesting perspective. I'd bet that's a factor in this. Also I think people generally don't like politicians and boris carefully messing up his hair before going on tv and using goofy phrases highlighting himself as different works wonders for him. Hes not behaving like a politician and its carefully crafted.

I think tbe key point though is corbyn is a terrible politician.

Corbyn has always been a terrible campaigner and amazying seemed to get worse rather than better. Hes watched the torys torpedo themselves for years without ever taking any advantage of the mess they've made of the country.

He offered student free uni fees so they chanted his name at festivals and then went back into hibernation. Hes useless so I'm glad hes gone.

arsedocmd

How is the country a mess? curious

goon

I actually think Corbyn is a very good campaigner. It's worth remembering too that in 2017 Corbyn pretty much matched up to Blair purely in terms of percentage share so it's not true to say he was unpopular. Even this year his share is better than what Brown and Miliband managed. The issue is that popularity is concentrated in the big cities. Labours campaign should have focused a lot more on the northern towns and other marginals but even so I don't think it would have been enough to change views on Corbyn himself.

speedy

arsedoc md wrote:
How is the country a mess? curious

1/3 child poverty
Brexit cost over 70 Billion already and everyone has stopped talking about the benifits because nobody could find any
deeply divided the country
My GF had a older family member bleed out on the side of the road waiting 3 hours for an ambulance last week.
The NHS has been shreaded,for example physios ive worked with in the past now have to discharge 70% of patients in the first visit and the rest in 3 visits after waiting 16 weeks to be seen so its all chronic conditions. It's impossible, the manager has the receptionist falsifying the outcomes by altering notesticking goals achieved.
Private owned NHS hospitals charge £4K to install a TV. while publicly own hospital get the same instalation including wiring done for just under 1K.
Our local large hospital has to reduce inpatient time by 50% to meet impossible targets and thats while being completely understaffed.
I had a friend qualified s a nurse recently ahd had to quite as he was managing 3 wards on his own some days,
There waasnt a single pediatric (child hospital bed) in the greather manchester area last week. Ill kids had to be set past abut 5 hospitals to a completely different area to recieve treatment. I wouldn't be suprised if thats cost some childs life.

GMP officers ive treated ahve told me theres between 3,000-5,000 outstanding warrents in the greater manchester area that nobody has the time to pick up and deal with because they're completely understaffed.

speedy

goon wrote:
I actually think Corbyn is a very good campaigner. It's worth remembering too that in 2017 Corbyn pretty much matched up to Blair purely in terms of percentage share so it's not true to say he was unpopular. Even this year his share is better than what Brown and Miliband managed. The issue is that popularity is concentrated in the big cities. Labours campaign should have focused a lot more on the northern towns and other marginals but even so I don't think it would have been enough to change views on Corbyn himself.

Out of 10 rate how he campaigned on brexit for the inital vote and then since then.

y va marquer

From a yougov poll dated 6th December

KingslandBarge

I am big fan of purple pink combinations in bar charts. Its one of my go-tos. I think I saw this back then; what makes Jeremy Corbyn just as bad a role model and unrelatable as Boris Johnson? Astonishing. You can see the variance between the leaders on the last question. That is what Labour needs to think about because it was more than just the incumbent effect.

y va marquer

Asterix

No one puts Putin in a corner.

Asterix

What seems to be happening in places like Britain and Australia is the vote for the left leaning side of politics is split between progressives and the working class, who don't always have the same goals and wants. The parties don't know how to address two competing sides - eg Brexit in UK, coal mining jobs vs climate change in Australia. Immigration too.

People get disillusioned and so vote for the Lib Dems / Greens or Farage / Pauline Hanson instead.

speedy

White supremacy and general racism is a huge part of English culture for a very long time. It has been covered by a thin veil of politness for a very long time. And that Veil has side off.

I was treating an individual yesterday whos on the dole 4 kids and her sister doesn't work either. She claimed theses no jobs and none of her friends work more that 16 hours so they can get benifits. She swapped from labour to conservatives in this recent election. She said it was difficult because the cuts had really affected her. But she wanted the immigrants to be treated more harshly than they are now. And Boris is the man to do it while jeremy wouldn't be as harsh on them. And also she feels if she shouts a black person to "fuck off" that they could say she racist and she'd be defenseless and she feels thats political correctness gone mad.

Luckly she'll be getting what she deserves. The same racists that voted for brexit have just shifted across to conservatives.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-far-right-extremists-join-conservatives-support-britain-first-a9252201.html

Qwiss

Boris bringing in anti-BDS laws https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-pm-boris-johnson-pledges-to-move-forward-with-anti-bds-law/

So much for all those right wingers who claim they're worried about the left taking away their freedom of speech.

JazzG

I feel a massive bust up or potential split coming up in the Labour party. A lot of MPs coming out furious with how campaign went and a lot of anger towards the leadership. Recent polling suggesting that for a lot of people who ditched their support towards Labour the main reason was the leadership not Brexit. Like the shameless man he is, Corbyn still clinging onto power and feels like he will hang around until his cult appoint someone else to takeover.

Quite clear the party need a massive change in direction after this disaster of a campaign yet they're happy to just put the blame on Brexit and claim their policies were popular. I mean they were popular on social media but in the real world a lot of people didn't hence why this it the worst result in something like 85 years. In times like this the country needs strong opposition, not what we have currently which feels like a glorified protest group leading the opposition.

Qwiss! wrote:
Boris bringing in anti-BDS laws https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-pm-boris-johnson-pledges-to-move-forward-with-anti-bds-law/

So much for all those right wingers who claim they're worried about the left taking away their freedom of speech.

The far left have an unhealthy obsession with Israel, a shame they can't focus their energy on other world issues. Nothing wrong with criticising Israel when they're in the wrong but from those same people near silence on other countries. Has Corbyn even mentioned once what is going on China right now with the Uyghurs? Or do Communist countries not count?

jones

Jesus Christ it's like reading a Daily Mail comment.

JazzG

Wouldn’t have had you as a regular reader of the Daily Mail jones...

Qwiss

JazzG wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Boris bringing in anti-BDS laws https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-pm-boris-johnson-pledges-to-move-forward-with-anti-bds-law/

So much for all those right wingers who claim they're worried about the left taking away their freedom of speech.

The far left have an unhealthy obsession with Israel, a shame they can't focus their energy on other world issues. Nothing wrong with criticising Israel when they're in the wrong but from those same people near silence on other countries. Has Corbyn even mentioned once what is going on China right now with the Uyghurs? Or do Communist countries not count?

Boris wants to make protesting a country that regularly breaks international law illegal. That has nothing to do with Corbyn or China.

But since you asked yes Corbyn has mentioned the Uyghurs https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34531881

And this 2 months ago

"The government says they will be at the forefront of solving the most complex international security issues and global challenges, and yet they are playing precisely no role in stopping the horrors unfolding in Kurdish areas of Northern Syria, ending the war and humanitarian crisis in Yemen, or standing up for the rights of the Rohingya, the Uighurs, or the people of Palestine, Kashmir, Ecuador or Hong Kong."

So now back on topic how do you feel about your PM pushing to make it illegal to protest the brutal Israeli occupation of Palestine?

Coombs

Good post, qs. +3

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