UK Politics Omnishambles: Page 164 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One more in the Tolly

UK Politics Omnishambles

Mirth

JazzG Our allies are coming to our defence because we are weak not because of design. US, Israel, Cyprus, Bahrain and the UAE have all spoken out against us already. The US and Israel you could put in one category but the others have legitimate concerns about us.

Frankly I put all the Gulf states in the same category. The UAE's spent countless billions waging war across Sudan and Yemen but they need support now? Do me a favor - they have stockpiled US weapons and equipment for this kind of eventuality and they've got plenty of resource to defend their own terrirtory. They need diplomatic cover.

JazzG Our allies are coming to our defence because we are weak not because of design.

And my question is - so what? The UK is not a superpower. It's not a great power. It's middle power like every other country in Europe. Even the French. It's not new - the UK and France couldn't do shit in Libya a decade ago, the French since embarrassed themselves in North Africa and now this.

That's not a bad thing - fuck having the burden of being a superpower - and start questioning why we even have bases that we're too overstretched to run - even a 2-3% increase in defence spending won't fix that. It literally only works if you're willing to piggy back over the logistic infrastructure of the United States and that relationship doesn't hold anymore.

And the hawkish rhetoric on defence spending is genuinely a tale as old as time - it doesn't matter if you're the UK, US or anyone else.

awooga83

Mirth And my question is - so what? The UK is not a superpower. It's not a great power. It's middle power like every other country in Europe. Even the French. It's not new - the UK and France couldn't do shit in Libya a decade ago, the French since embarrassed themselves in North Africa and now this.

Pretty much this the saber rattlers need to accept we aren't exceptional and are pretty irrelevant in these conflicts we can only hope to contribute with allies particularly in Europe

JazzG

Have they checked on eBay? Maybe they should give the Chinese a call, they might have one lying around. So only now they realise they need some kind of effective defence against Iranian Drones?

I feel sorry for Healey, I don't think he believes a word of what he is saying.

Mirth Frankly I put all the Gulf states in the same category. The UAE's spent countless billions waging war across Sudan and Yemen but they need support now? Do me a favor - they have stockpiled US weapons and equipment for this kind of eventuality and they've got plenty of resource to defend their own terrirtory. They need diplomatic cover.

Because we have bilateral defence agreements, security partnerships and military bases there? I'm not overly familiar with their reasons for being involved in Sudan

Mirth And my question is - so what?

That is fine, if you want the UK to be a non player in this. The world is changing and the UK is nowhere to be found. In fact is increasingly becoming irrelevant but that is ok for some.

Burnwinter On this we agree.

On the rest of that post less so 😉

awooga83 On your spineless comment

Oh that is a general observation, not just about this. I mean look at their response to the grooming gangs inquiry, forced into it and now actively watering it down before probably trying to kill it off. Trevor Phillips below perfectly sums up what they are trying to do. These are the actions of a man who is spineless and no moral compass.

Burnwinter

JazzG On this we agree. As for Corbyn all that "friend of Hamas" slander has aged like milk. Corbyn was calling the situation what it was, apartheid overseen by an increasingly unhinged police state, and speaking out against war and carnage never rationalised on humanitarian grounds after the fact.

I won't recap the history, but five years of Labour foreign affairs incoherence caused by reality denial on ulterior motives has already been damaging. The UK posture looks confused but is made rational by perceiving it as other nations' power in motion. It's not going to change.

awooga83

JazzG there are no credible leaders on that ground Farage is a Maga loon who 100% supports anything the US does and Badenoch totally incompetent and foolish with her empty warmongering so whatever you are expecting from Starmer it's also not present in the others.

On your spineless comment specifically on the war what were you referring to we didn't get involved in the offensive actions and we have got involved in defensive actions so I'm not sure which bit of that you see as spineless. Defending against drones is incredibly tricky even your poster army russian has found that out and the US in this conflict so a drone getting through is highly likely.

As mirth said maybe if some of the guif states spent less time interfering in countries like Sudan and creating humanitarian disasters of their own they could have spent a bit more looking after themselves as well.

awooga83

JazzG nothing they would have done in the last 2 years would have contributed to this conflict so what's your point? They've increased allocation of defence spending already assets take multi year's to produce so what do you think would have happened differently in two years to affect this conflict.

JazzG

awooga83

Yup nothing they could have done

awooga83

This article very much sums it up nobody for one second believes Starmer is particularly amazing but when you see the total madness across the parties saying stuff like this it ends up that in these kind of moments Starmer despite these issues with him it's still the best option as nobody else can credibly present alternatives that meet contact with the reality of the world.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/05/kemi-badenoch-iran-war-nick-robinson

Dom

Mirth There's about 250k Brits in Dubai alone as things stand - any kind of escalation puts them squarely at risk.

To add to this, hundreds of British spooks will be among this number and many are likely to be known by Iran. Attacking Iran will give it the right to attack whereever the spooks are staying (in a busy hotel with other civilan Brits).

Mirth

JazzG Because we have bilateral defence agreements, security partnerships and military bases there?

They'll hold. Trust me - they'll hold. Jazz, mate, you're acting like this is the first time you've seen this show.

JazzG That is fine, if you want the UK to be a non player in this. The world is changing and the UK is nowhere to be found. In fact is increasingly becoming irrelevant but that is ok for some.

Relevant to do what exactly?

jones

You keep saying what you're not referring to but never clearly what it is you want the UK to do.

JazzG That is fine, if you want the UK to be a non player in this. The world is changing and the UK is nowhere to be found. In fact is increasingly becoming irrelevant but that is ok for some.

What's the "in this" referring to then? You keep saying how the UK has no money to pay for all these boat people and social services why do you need to fund a military base thousands of miles away from the UK?

awooga83

JazzG it sounds like those ships have their limitations in the event of mass wave of drones they get overwhelmed and the cost effectiveness is very bad drones cost nothing each missile is apparently worth 1m per shot so again probably not a great resource of it gets overwhelmed. If allies our closer and also have reasons to defend the area then there is no great problem with that again it seems to boil down to some kind of English exceptionalism which just rings hollow.

awooga83

Mirth and we are irrelevant this is where all this sabre rattling people go to and forget the world has moved on and the UK is a tiny little island that has no serious relevance to any country with a decent army, economically we are being replaced as a power from many of the emerging nations. I get it, it's hard to accept that you just don't matter but your going to have to come to terms with it jazz UK doesn't change the dial as any sort of military power, some of our knowledge and soft power sure but force we boat don't register it's funny how some people in the country cannot seem to accept that reality.

Mirth

awooga83 frankly I've been to plenty 'irrelevant' countries that offer far better standards of living than 'relevant' countries. I don't see it as a negative.

awooga83

Mirth I don't mean standard of living though I meant as a global power projecting military influence we are irrelevant as that's why it's stupid to get so worked up in this context.

JazzG

jones I think you need to actually read what I am saying, I am not referring to this war. That would probably answer your question and clear up any misunderstanding you have.

When you piss off your allies in turbulent times there can be repercussions down the line for that. Now sometimes you have to draw a line and say you are not getting involved, for example I think this Iran operation is completely crazy and extremely high risk for America let alone someone like us. However when it comes to defending your bases or allies under threat, who clearly expected you to be there and you no show they will probably remember that. Which some people might be fine with but there will be no shortage of other countries willing to take your place for that business.

Ironic you of all people talking about shit talkers, takes one to know one I suppose?

Qwiss So the British should just allow British airbases to be attacked?

awooga83 It sounds like this country has been asleep over the past few weeks and been caught flat footed but I'm sure you think otherwise.

Mirth

awooga83 fair. The entire set up since Suez was to not expose Britain as militarily irrelevant - the trends @JazzG is getting so upset about were set in motion 70 years but the alliance with the US (and NATO) allowed the UK to piggyback off the logistics infrastructure set up by the United States and look like a country capable of force projection by specialising in a few discrete elements (e.g. aircraft carriers/nuclear subs).

There's reports from the 80s and the Falklands War that highlighted how hollowed out the British forces were even back then - as ever the grifters yearn for a time that never existed but the script stays the same.

Qwiss

I don't know how anyone in London can want to get involved. Do you want another 7/7?

awooga83

Qwiss it's pretty much the right wing who are screaming about it

jones

@JazzG did you seriously just say you want the UK to be a "player" in this war? You don't half chat shit most of the time tbf but I must've misunderstood you on this surely

awooga83

JazzG When you piss off your allies in turbulent times there can be repercussions down the line for that.

Look at what the US has done this last year under trump, you can see if your threatening to invade Greenland and put tariffs on countries you can't then say why don't you support us as well. It's exactly the line your pushing accept trump was abusing his allies constantly over that time.

I think the country like an those in the region is getting caught in the collateral damage of the US and Israeli actions and it looks like all regions didn't expect Iran's retaliation including the US so I don't think anyone looks particularly great in this. Show me a country that hasn't been caught off guard with the extent of the response including the belligerents.

As for allies most of them are already much more reliant on the US then a couple of planes from the UK we really don't effect things much on the military front.

Has there been further successful attacks on the airbases since the single one launched from Lebanon got through?

Qwiss

JazzG maybe British air bases should be in Britain.

JazzG

Trump was never going to invade Greenland, not that I am a fan of Piers Morgan but he summed it up well when he said take Trump seriously but not literally. Everything to this guy is a negotiation and he will use every threat and dirty tactic to get what he wants. He is crude and will abuse his power to get what he wants. I'm sure this is what the Americans do behind the scenes anyway and he is doing it in public.

awooga83 Has there been further successful attacks on the airbases since the single one launched from Lebanon got through?

Does that means we just can send the ship back home now that things have calmed down? My point is we knew this war was coming and we weren't prepared and scrambling into action after an incident.

« Previous Page Next Page »