UK Politics Omnishambles: Page 161 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One more in the Tolly

UK Politics Omnishambles

JazzG

So the police just accidentally leaked the speaker of the house thought Mandelson was a flight risk.....The speaker does like a holiday, rumours for a while he likes travelling around on the public tab!

awooga83 Even if they do have evidence Mandelson, like I said this guy knows where all the bodies are buried and is the type of character to make sure if he goes down a lot of other big people will also go down with him. As Epstein files have shown these people keep all of sorts of evidence in their back pocket in case they need it...

Burnwinter

JazzG So the police just accidentally leaked the speaker of the house thought Mandelson was a flight risk

Sounds a bit more hopeless than that … they told Mandelson's lawyers one Speaker was the source who wasn't, then revealed it was the other Speaker by apologising to him in passing for their original mistake?! Shambles.

I was surprised to hear Mandelson was getting investigated despite what had come out. If he can't somehow wiggle out of it, things could get fairly interesting.

awooga83

JazzG if there is sufficient evidence he'll be charged I don't go in for big conspiracy ideas. To his advantage he either was clever enough not to put damning trading info in documents or his well paid lawyers will find some technicality. There is such focus on this it won't be allowed to get "dropped"

JazzG

awooga83 There is already talk of a massive coverup happening being directed by No.10 so you may start believing these conspiracies soon 😉

Burnwinter Sounds about par for the Met police...Oh I'd be shocked if he didn't wiggle out of this or just escape with a firm slap on the wrist. Keir Starmer is in danger of this blowing up in his face because it seems like he essentially was determined no matter what Mandelson would get the job. They are now trying to control what comes out but the backbenchers are furious, especially those more to the left who don't really like Mandelson.

Seen today the assisted suicide bill is about to assisted into death! Just in the past week or so that is the Chagos Island thing on ice, this bill dead and there will be more.

I could probably write about at least 10 things this government has spent political capital (in some cases significant amounts) only to then be force to change track. This government is literally next to useless and to be this bad with that kind of majority is some achievement.

Tam

JazzG Seen today the assisted suicide bill is about to assisted into death! Just in the past week or so that is the Chagos Island thing on ice, this bill dead and there will be more.

Just out of interest, what should have happened, or what should the Government do with the Chagos Islands?

awooga83

JazzG the mandelson issue that's under police investigation was from 2009-2010 nothing to do with recent government appointment and only came to light based on emails obtained but the US and not previously released so that aspect probably has little bearing on Starmer.

The Chagos still seems to be the policy they have just been working through it as far as I can see. The recent stuff with trump was because the UK refused them permission to use Diego Garcia to launch strikes on Iran so it's basically trump being a baby most of the US have agreed with the decision. The assisted dying bill has been deliberately sabotaged in the lords by an unelected body so that's pretty pathetic that they are able to frustrate democratically elected parliament but that should eventually come back.

Mirth

JazzG This government is literally next to useless and to be this bad with that kind of majority is some achievement.

I mean having better labour laws, renter rights and NHS improved waiting times have been pretty cool.

The sad thing is Starmer's too scared to actually celebrate any of those achievements because landlords and corporates don't view it as an achievement.

Qwiss

Tam they should fuck off and let the displaced peoples return.

JazzG

Tam Not give them to Mauritius and a fuck load of money on top would be a good place to start.

Let the Chagossian people return, they are the ones who were shafted in this and the UK should keep the rest of the Islands secure and keep the base there.

awooga83 The assisted dying bill has been deliberately sabotaged in the lords by an unelected body so that's pretty pathetic that they are able to frustrate democratically elected parliament but that should eventually come back.

Yeah sorry not having that, the bill was rushed through and had massive problems with it which they did not want to engage in good faith. Allowing this is a pretty big deal and there was nothing in Labour's manifesto about this. They can try to play ignorant and say it is a private members bill but multiple news outlets have said behind the scene this is something that Starmer is pushing for. This wasn't some Right wing movement either who sunk the bill, left wing Labour MPs like Diane Abbot and Naz Shah spoke out very strongly and passionately against some of the safeguarding measures in the bill. I do fully understand the reasons why those with terminal illnesses should be given the option but this is also a very slippery slope. These things can lead onto a very dangerous path so should be handled carefully.

awooga83 he mandelson issue that's under police investigation was from 2009-2010 nothing to do with recent government appointment and only came to light based on emails obtained but the US and not previously released so that aspect probably has little bearing on Starmer.

And what about Starmer seeming quite keen to prevent the full set of Mandelson documents being released, does that not have any bearing on Starmer? It took Angela Rayner getting involved to force the Government only a few weeks ago to agree to release information and there are plenty of rumours they are fighting hard to prevent some documents coming out. If Starmer has nothing to hide he isn't acting like that...

Burnwinter

Have to say, if I were Starmer I'd have been waiting until Trump died before trying to do anything involving the sovereignty of a UK territory with a joint UK–US military base on it. It's just asking for nonsense.

Qwiss

Everyone must bend the knee to Trump and Netanyahu. People must remain displaced, genocides must continues as long as no upsets Trump lest they suffer a tariff. This is liberalism in 2026.

Mirth

Qwiss it's not really a critic of liberalism - it's the whole world, right now. From Japan to India to Europe.

Qwiss

Mirth not the whole world 🇨🇳

Mirth

Qwiss yeah, you need a 20 trillion dollar economy to tell Trump to fuck off.

Qwiss

JazzG Let the Chagossian people return, they are the ones who were shafted in this

Exactly.

JazzG and the UK should keep the rest of the Islands secure and keep the base there.

Nah you should get out. Not your country. Stick to your own island.

awooga83

JazzG Yeah sorry not having that, the bill was rushed through and had massive problems with it which they did not want to engage in good faith. Allowing this is a pretty big deal and there was nothing in Labour's manifesto about this. They can try to play ignorant and say it is a private members bill but multiple news outlets have said behind the scene this is something that Starmer is pushing for. This wasn't some Right wing movement either who sunk the bill, left wing Labour MPs like Diane Abbot and Naz Shah spoke out very strongly and passionately against some of the safeguarding measures in the bill. I do fully understand the reasons why those with terminal illnesses should be given the option but this is also a very slippery slope. These things can lead onto a very dangerous path so should be handled carefully.

You not having it doesn't really matter because that is parliamentary democracy it went to a vote and passed that's how it works. If you don't like it that's fine but again that's how democracy works. So it's passed the elected chamber and now it's delayed in the unelected one those are the facts. You said there was opposition in parliament and reference left leaning MPs yes that's fine but they lost the vote so them being against it isn't why it's not progressed.

You reference multiple news outlets briefing about this which ones are they and what's their position on this issue because none of them are impartial so citing them doesn't make them credible.

awooga83

JazzG what about Starmer seeming quite keen to prevent the full set of Mandelson documents being released, does that not have any bearing on Starmer? It took Angela Rayner getting involved to force the Government only a few weeks ago to agree to release information and there are plenty of rumours they are fighting hard to prevent some documents coming out.

What's the evidence for this Jazz? Rumours are worthless because they are usually not supported by evidence and at their worst are total lies. A source saying it's rumour is unreliable you need on the record evidence otherwise it doesn't meet the credibility test.

The decision to appoint mandelson and the discussions around that are one area but they are separate to the thing he has currently been publicly arrested for which pre date that and separate to what the discussion was for the other topic.

None of the media or opposition where calling for mandelson to be removed from the lords at the time so whatever issues there were all those areas were as guilty, essentially the mere fact he was linked to Epstein didn't matter to anybody at the time. The failure is collective on all of us that it didn't matter rather then the comforting answer to absolve ourselves as a community to say it's all this it that person's fault.

Mirth

Qwiss I don't think any version of this ends well for the Chagossian people even if the island is handed to Mauritius since India, the US and China all have use for the base. As far as I can tell the base is a de facto US territory as the UK has no meaningful force projection in the middle of the Indian Ocean since about 1950.

But I agree - it's ridiculous to be caught in between to negotiate on behalf of the US and the idea that it provides any real benefit directly to the UK is dubious but equally so is the idea that the land will be used for anything other than force projection by the rising powers.

JazzG

awooga83 This was a private members bill, the Lords is under no obligation to let it pass and if the bill has serious flaws and gives the state the power to take a life then it would have been a dereliction of duty for them to let it pass knowing the bill had problems. If Labour felt strongly about it, they should have put their name to it and set up a Royal Commission to handle something sensitive like this. That way it would have got proper scrutiny and would have had enough safeguards to put members of parliament and the public at ease.

awooga83 Going by this logic we should shut down the Transfer rumours section of this site as well, none of the rumours there have real solid evidence either. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/feb/04/labour-forced-into-humble-pie-address-over-mandelson-disclosures Here is the guardian, a paper with very close ties to Labour stating what I've said.

Qwiss I think we should let the Chagossian's decide that.

JazzG

Mirth I am fully in support of good strong labour laws and better rental market regulation but a lot of things they have bought in will only make things worse. With any type of regulation it is about finding the right balance and Labour have gone too far the other way.

Mirth That is the thing, it does not benefit us directly. I suppose the Americans are de facto our security net so it does benefit us in that way but they need that base more than we need the Islands.

awooga83

JazzG This was a private members bill, the Lords is under no obligation to let it pass and if the bill has serious flaws and gives the state the power to take a life then it would have been a dereliction of duty for them to let it pass knowing the bill had problems. If Labour felt strongly about it, they should have put their name to it and set up a Royal Commission to handle something sensitive like this. That way it would have got proper scrutiny and would have had enough safeguards to put members of parliament and the public at ease.

The lord's are under no obligation to let any bill pass. Why do you assume the lord's know better then parliament.

The reason labour haven't taken it as government position is because they have said it's a question of conscience for the exact reasons you've stated that people have different views so they aren't forcing it as a government line but saying all MPS get a free choice which is what happend and it passed that's parliamentary democracy of you funny like it that's fair but it's the way it's been for hundreds of years.

On the guardian article I can't see where it says that Starmer is preventing release of relevant information on this to protect himself? It says he referenced material that might have national security or investigative interest to the police but all that is pretty standard procedure rather then him doing something explicitly to hide his own actions. If you have a specific quote in the article feel free to point me to it.

I think you would be able to see the difference between a football transfer rumor and a real world issue with tangible impact and therefore due to the seriousness should be fact based right? It adds nothing to the discussion to say well I've heard this or that without proper sourcing.

Mirth

JazzG With any type of regulation it is about finding the right balance and Labour have gone too far the other way.

What part of the workers right or renters right regulation is an outlier with other European countries?

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