UK Politics Omnishambles: Page 153 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One more in the Tolly

UK Politics Omnishambles

jones

Mirth haven't read the article but 'serious economist' Willem Buiter is an ideologue and fiscal hawk, not surprised to read him cosigning a piece about the downfall of the occident

Burnwinter

Tam She sounds like she's announcing her plan not raising a criticism

Burnwinter

Qwiss He's been melting down that badly for going on a decade now. It'd be a mercy to commit him to care.

Qwiss

Burnwinter he definitely needs to be on medication. They wheel him out on Irish TV every now and then as the "other side of the argument" against treating people with dignity and he's a lunatic. He's been completely consumed by his hatred. All because a few people took umbrage at some of his writing on the IT Crowd.

JazzG

Qwiss He made a joke about hitting a trans person in the balls if they are in a female space. I'm not sure that warrants armed officers coming to arrest him at Heathrow. I am assuming that is the tweet in question. People can say distasteful shit if they like. You don't have to like it but they shouldn't be arrested over it. Labour and Conservative MPs have spoken out against this. Even the Met Police has called for clarification as they feel their hands are tied.

awooga83 If she had just admitting she got things wrong and it would be sorted immediately she probably could have survived this. Instead allies went out and put their neck on the line when she clearly was in the wrong

Mirth Kobeissi might be pessimistic but a lot of economists are not very positive about the UK outlook. https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/Bond/TMBMKGB-10Y?countryCode=BX According to this 10Y yields were 4.6% at the start of the year and now 4.67% now and think we have had three interest rates cut since then. That Telegraph link isn't behind paywall and around 40s of that clip in Jagjit Chadha talks about the 10Y and 30Y yields.

awooga83 I don't know why you are referencing Farage here but I'll answer that. He is a known bullshitter but most politicians are known for this. However if you are found to fiddle housing tax while being the housing minister that a bit different to a politician lying. As for his comments in America, I didn't really like them either and considering he is odds on favourite to be next PM he should probably be a bit more careful what he says out there.

You talk about right wing press not going after their own, just look at the reaction of the left learning journalists to Rayner today, they all look heart broken. This is not the case where one side hold their own to account while the other give out free passes, both sides are just as bad as each other when it comes to this. Tories were getting up to no good last time, that is why they have 120 seats and the way things are looking they'll be lucky to have half of that from a poll I saw a few months back.

Qwiss

JazzG He made a joke about hitting a trans person in the balls if they are in a female space.

"If a trans-identified male is in a female-only space, he is committing a violent, abusive act. Make a scene, call the cops and if all else fails, punch him in the balls."

How is that a joke?

JazzG Labour and Conservative MPs have spoken out against this.

Oh really? Who do they think passed the laws he's been arrested under? Hypocritical idiots.

Tam

JazzG He made a joke about hitting a trans person in the balls if they are in a female space. I'm not sure that warrants armed officers coming to arrest him at Heathrow. I am assuming that is the tweet in question. People can say distasteful shit if they like. You don't have to like it but they shouldn't be arrested over it.

Problem is, as the law currently stands, it does. He is one of the most prominent gender critics and he’s advocating violence against a group protected under the Equality Act. I’m not saying I agree with it, but there would equally be a backlash (admittedly probably not as noteworthy) if the Police didn’t act. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t. Maybe Glinner should have taken your advice re Farage and watched his words. As for being armed, Police are routinely armed in airports. They didn’t send the counter terror teams to snatch him in a raid. I also suspect there were five of them because the situation had the potential to escalate and may have needed managing. The manner of the arrest and sensationalism around it is much overblown, but it gives those with police state views further ammunition.

We don’t know the full details but Clarkson’s words are fairly horrific given that we know the Rayner’s received compensation towards funding lifelong care after medical errors at least contributed to, or possibly caused, her son’s disabilities.

awooga83

JazzG don't know why you are referencing Farage here but I'll answer that. He is a known bullshitter but most politicians are known for this. However if you are found to fiddle housing tax while being the housing minister that a bit different to a politician lying. As for his comments in America, I didn't really like them either and considering he is odds on favourite to be next PM he should probably be a bit more careful what he says out there.

You talk about right wing press not going after their own, just look at the reaction of the left learning journalists to Rayner today, they all look heart broken. This is not the case where one side hold their own to account while the other give out free passes, both sides are just as bad as each other when it comes to this.

I mention Farage because when people get irate about people who are in it for themselves that's valid perspective but if you then say In the same breath and that's why I'll vote reform then your not serious about addressing those issues and you never actually cared about them in the first place. If however you apply that to him as well then fine he should also be resigning I guess.

I don't dispute there is left wing bias in the papers that lean that way but the right wing press have become fully unhinged since Brexit with their claims about the UK, judges being enemy of the people and the UK being North Korea. It's total distortion of the true facts which is surely what journalism is supposed to be built on. As above if you really get angry with tax dodging that's great,me too, but you have to then run down all the leads on that and dig up the dirt on whoever is doing it not just those ideologically opposed to you, so will they turn their attention to their newspapers owners? I think we know the answer. So then why are they frothing at the mouth of it's not actually and caring about tax dodging?

JazzG

Going in two footed there Mr Clarkson!

Also big cabinet reshuffle happening, probably timed so to act as a distraction to Rayner resignation….

JazzG

Qwiss "If a trans-identified male is in a female-only space, he is committing a violent, abusive act. Make a scene, call the cops and if all else fails, punch him in the balls."

How is that a joke?

You think someone should be arrested for that? Seems like a crude joke to me, hence the punch him in the balls part.

Qwiss Oh really? Who do they think passed the laws he's been arrested under? Hypocritical idiots.

That we can agree on.

Burnwinter

JazzG You think someone should be arrested for that? Seems like a crude joke to me, hence the punch him in the balls part.

Linehan's proven to have more hate speech in him than David Duke. He's a fixated, weird, miserable and relentless hater who's thrived emotionally on attracting negative attention for many years now.

In this case the way he behaved towards a trans kid was intolerably vicious: his target here was seventeen, and being both harassed in person and opened up to abuse from Linehan's large online following of transphobes. Even "gender critics" need to ask themselves in what wise this toxic behaviour isn't far more antisocial than their neurotic fantasies about women's sport and bathroom intruders. The world is a slightly better place—even Linehan's life will be improved—by someone having had the courage to take the fight back to him with actual consequences.

Qwiss

JazzG You think someone should be arrested for that?

No, I think in a normal country that wouldn't happen but in a country where they arrest rappers and threaten book writers for solidarity with the Palestinians this is how it goes. You were a big supporter of that as I recall. Also its definitely not a joke, the first part of the tweet makes that abundantly clear. i don't think arresting him helps though, it just causes a Streisand effect and makes him a martyr for other miserable, hate filled losers.

JazzG

Tam Problem is, as the law currently stands, it does. He is one of the most prominent gender critics and he’s advocating violence against a group protected under the Equality Act. I’m not saying I agree with it, but there would equally be a backlash (admittedly probably not as noteworthy) if the Police didn’t act. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t. Maybe Glinner should have taken your advice re Farage and watched his words. As for being armed, Police are routinely armed in airports. They didn’t send the counter terror teams to snatch him in a raid. I also suspect there were five of them because the situation had the potential to escalate and may have needed managing. The manner of the arrest and sensationalism around it is much overblown, but it gives those with police state views further ammunition.

We have just had a labour councillor found not guilty of encouraging violence for standing in front of a crowd saying people should have their throats slit while making a throat slit gesture with his fingers and then on the other hand a comedian says about punching Trans people in the balls gets pulled up on landing at the airport.

I don't think either should be in arrested or jailed, I don't really agree with either of them but in a free society you need to accept people will say horrible things.

Tam We don’t know the full details but Clarkson’s words are fairly horrific given that we know the Rayner’s received compensation towards funding lifelong care after medical errors at least contributed to, or possibly caused, her son’s disabilities.

She also released a video thanking the NHS for all they did for her kid but she also sued them? If the hospital are responsible then she is within her rights to sue them but why release a video calling her child a NHS miracle? If the NHS was responsible for harm to my new born I would be releasing a very different kind of video!

Tam

JazzG We have just had a labour councillor found not guilty of encouraging violence for standing in front of a crowd saying people should have their throats slit while making a throat slit gesture with his fingers and then on the other hand a comedian says about punching Trans people in the balls gets pulled up on landing at the airport.

The Labour councillor was found not guilty after a trial. I presume you’re happy he was found not guilty. The system works.

For Linehan, he was arrested. It’s yet to be determine if he will be charged never mind face trial.

These are not equivalent. Yet anyway

JazzG She also released a video thanking the NHS for all they did for her kid but she also sued them? If the hospital are responsible then she is within her rights to sue them but why release a video calling her child a NHS miracle? If the NHS was responsible for harm to my new born I would be releasing a very different kind of video!

Of course they’re responsible. The details are scant, but what does seem to be the case is the Rayner’s received a significant payment after an 11 year legal battle arising from the care her son received when he was born. The hospital either willingly paid, or were found liable by a court. If there has been medical negligence that has caused or contributed to disability that needs lifelong care, it is standard practice that NHS trusts pay compensation. At the same time, it sounds like her child has significant medical issues which can and have been managed well by other NHS staff. Perhaps they saved his life, who knows. There is more than one person in the NHS. There will be good and bad. She’s allowed to praise the good whilst being compensated for the bad.

JazzG

awooga83 The reason why Farage is getting popular isn't because they are turning a blind eye to his hypocrisy it is because they are so fed up of the current and previous government they want an alternative. Same reason Trump got elected. The Labour and Conservative party have left a vacuum which he is now looking to fill.

Brexit has caused the left wing press to become just as unhinged as the right. You are right the press should be looking at everyone not just based on their political views but I think we are long past the days of having a true independent and unbiased press, if that even ever existed!

Tam It doesn't set a very good precedent when people are arrested in that manner. As for that Labour MP, it shows that rather than accepting the charge people should take it to trial and common sense will be applied there.

Well clearly the NHS didn't do their job if she won that payment so maybe politicians should stop going around idol worshipping the NHS and start treating like the service it is, a service which is letting down a lot of people right now despite record funding. So maybe she should have released a video outlining what went wrong for her so other mothers who may have had the same experience can come forward?

Burnwinter He might be a cunt but that doesn't mean he should be arrested.

Qwiss Showing public support for Hezbollah, a proscribed terrorist group, and calling for your local MP to be killed is of course the same....I don't know what book writer you are referring to so can't comment on that.

Tam

JazzG Well clearly the NHS didn't do their job if she won that payment so maybe politicians should stop going around idol worshipping the NHS and start treating like the service it is, a service which is letting down a lot of people right now despite record funding. So maybe she should have released a video outlining what went wrong for her so other mothers who may have had the same experience can come forward?

Honestly thought it would be hard to out-Clarkson Clarkson himself, but you’ve managed it.

Burnwinter

JazzG He might be a cunt but that doesn't mean he should be arrested.

Look mate, you've said "it's just a joke" and I've said "he's actually worse than David Duke". It's not just a joke.

I'm not a fan of cops chasing people around social media. However.

Bigots like Linehan are spending years of their lives trying to end trans people's careers, get trans kids kicked off their swim teams or laughed out of their classrooms, get trans women assaulted … all based on rubbish claims trans people are antisocial and dangerous. Trust me, Linehan has done all that and more. Let these bigots live in the antagonistic world they're creating. It's a world in which their own clearly antisocial, dangerous behaviour attracts a penalty. Good.

Qwiss

JazzG Sally Rooney.

So saying "kill your MP" in a satirical show isn't comedy but tweeting that a trans person taking a wee in a toilet is "a violent, abusive act" and they should be assaulted for it is a joke? And this coming from a guy who has harassed and doxxed trans kids. Have Kneecap attacked or harassed any teenage MPs?

awooga83

JazzG The reason why Farage is getting popular isn't because they are turning a blind eye to his hypocrisy it is because they are so fed up of the current and previous government they want an alternative. Same reason Trump got elected. The Labour and Conservative party have left a vacuum which he is now looking to fill.

Right but my point is if the vacuum is because you feel let down fine. If you then vote Farage then you actually don't care about solving anything in which case why were you so angry in the first place you were never serious about wanting solutions you just want someone else to lie to you, great plan.

JazzG

Tam 👍️

Burnwinter So because you don't like what he is saying you think it is justified?

Qwiss From a quick google she's supporting Palestine Action who are a proscribed terrorist group. I'm sure there are plenty of other ways for her to supporting the people of Palestine but she chooses to support the group who partake in domestic terrorism.

I don't think there are any teenage MPs...If he is doxxing people that is different but that tweet in question is a joke, clearly you don't see it that way. As for Kneecap, weren't they more in trouble for supporting Hezbollah than the tweet? Saying to a live audience "They’re fucking Tories. The only good Tory is a dead Tory. Kill your local MP" is satire but an actual comedian with that tweet is incitement?

Burnwinter

JazzG So because you don't like what he is saying you think it is justified?

No mate, it's not about Linehan's opinion.

Linehan now faces multiple court cases. His arrest at Heathrow in connection with those tweets was when he was flying to attend his trial for extended online harassment of a trans teenager, culminating in an in-person confrontation where he smashed her phone. Great bloke.

Qwiss

JazzG who are a proscribed terrorist group.

Yeah and that's bullshit. The whole "proscribed" list in the UK is just about suppression of support for certain things. PA don't "partake in domestic terrorism" fucking hell.

Burnwinter

JazzG From a quick google she's supporting Palestine Action who are a proscribed terrorist group.

Starmer and Cooper proscribing PA was lickspittle imperial cronyism.

That's a group of courageous young people risking prison spraying red paint and smashing windows at weapons factories and military bases that are supplying materiel to the IDF, the army that has shot, shelled, bombed and bulldozed about 20,000 almost defenceless children to death in under two years. Proscribe that.

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