UK Politics Omnishambles: Page 128 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

UK Politics Omnishambles

Coombs

goon The idea that the police give favourable treatment to minorities is one of the more wild right wing theories being propagated.

Not targeting people for their ethnic background or national origin is letting them off the hook. Remember, there is a new kind of crime now, it's called migrant crime. When real citizens commit crimes, it is an isolated incident. When migrants commit crimes, all migrants and their enablers are fundamentally responsible.

RowJimmy

Lay off the right-wing websites please. Bad for your mental health.

JazzG

goon As for ‘two tier policing’ didn’t realise Jimmy Saville and others of his ilk were ethnic minorities.

What has Jimmy Saville got to do with Rotherham? After Huw Edwards got busted might be worth looking into what is going on at the BBC....

goon The idea that the police give favourable treatment to minorities is one of the more wild right wing theories being propagated.

I think it is quite clear there was a massive cover up and massive failing of policing going on in Rotherham and a public inquiry should take place to get to the bottom of the failings. I think the public deserve to know the truth rather than people using what happened there to further their grift.

That is the ex-chair of Channel 4 saying the police leaned on them to preserve race relations. Clearly something was being covered up. I don't believe that they are covering for minorities but clearly something has gone seriously wrong.

Pakistani's have taken a lot of heat for this but I know a fair few myself who all thought it was disgraceful. Every community, whether they are white. black or Asian have a section who are up to no good. Unfair to tar them all with the same brush, which is what many on the far right do.

Coombs

JazzG I think it is quite clear there was a massive cover up and massive failing of policing going on in Rotherham and a public inquiry should take place to get to the bottom of the failings. I think the public deserve to know the truth rather than people using what happened there to further their grift.

All of this already happened according to what you linked. It's already been gotten to the bottom of, and everyone basically knew what happened in 2014. Why dredge up a decade-old scandal?

goon

JazzG What has Jimmy Saville got to do with Rotherham? After Huw Edwards got busted might be worth looking into what is going on at the BBC....

The point is the police and politicians will try and sweep anything under the rug if it’s difficult and paints them in a bad light. We’ve seen it with the post office scandal, the blood scandal and pretty much every other scandal.

That it’s because they’re from ‘protected’ ethnic minority background is a new right wing tool to create further division and distrust.

We’ve seen the likes of Farage and Trump take it further and invent migrant crimes and then blame a cover up so they don’t have to actually produce any evidence.

As I linked earlier, an independent report was already commissioned by Rotherham council, it’s where a lot of the most damning and shocking information on the case came to light.

JazzG

Coombs Considering there are still prosecutions taking place 10 years after that report I'd suggest there is still a lot of public interest in this case. A full public inquiry which should also cover other police forces who have covered things up.

This is one of the largest child abuse scandals to ever happen in this country which has shaken public confidence in many police federations. Maybe I am wrong but surely a fully independent public inquiry doesn't exactly sound unreasonable. Clearly there is still a lot of public interest in this.

Coombs

JazzG sounds like shit stirring dressed up as transparency to me. The public's interest includes all sorts of shit that's done and dusted. Are there aliens in Roswell Mew Mexico? What really happened to Diana? There's a reason true crime is so popular, maybe you can pitch it to Channel 4.

JazzG

Yes but I’m not sure those things are all quite similar to over a 1000 young girls being groomed and raped…

JazzG

goon The point is the police and politicians will try and sweep anything under the rug if it’s difficult and paints them in a bad light. We’ve seen it with the post office scandal, the blood scandal and pretty much every other scandal.

Which is why a public inquiry is needed, so they can't hide from that.

goon We’ve seen the likes of Farage and Trump take it further and invent migrant crimes and then blame a cover up so they don’t have to actually produce any evidence.

The way to counter that is to be honest about the immigration situation both countries are facing. They thrive and their grift works because parties in the West have let a huge number come in without thinking of the consequences. Illegal people are streaming into both countries and the population doesn't think enough is being done to stop that. The border crisis started under Trump, Democrats should have hammered him on that and then said they would fix this. Instead they've let people come in freely and now they are talking about how they want to fix it. People are stupid. This whole build the wall thing which he conveniently never got done and Democrats should have hammered that point home.

I'm pro immigration but you can't bring in the kind of numbers we are and then not expect a severe backlash. It has put even further pressure on housing and public services which were struggling anyway. People are struggling with inflation in the last couple of years while illegal people are being put up in hotels. Almost like a perfect storm is being created for people to become anti immigrants.

Coombs Two wrongs don't make a right. They were wrongly distracting from the Tories' systematic expropriation of public wealth by writing celebrity scandal clickbait about them, too.

Literally things leaking out left, right and centre about his gifts now, I think there are some disgruntled people within the party who are letting this slip.

I hope the club are getting something out of this, maybe they could get Starmer to have a chat with the Refs and put them straight 😉 His excuse about security is a load of nonsense, Rishi Sunak sat in the Directors box at Southampton so why can't Starmer do the same here?

Burnwinter

JazzG I do agree but this is the sort of shit they used to bat shit crazy about when the Tories did and they're just as bad.

Don't think this kind of thing's significant on the graft and moral hazard front. Compare it to the absurd corruption of Johnson's Cabinet during the pandemic: it pales by comparison.

It simply bodes ill that Starmer is chummy with the establishment. He's rarely impressed me as a spirit, another of these institutional creatures politics produces nowadays.

Burnwinter

JazzG They thrive and their grift works because parties in the West have let a huge number come in without thinking of the consequences.

4 in 10 migrants to the UK are working in health services or care work ... there's a consequence.

It's time for these good honest ordinary people to be accountable for the stupid shit they're happy to swallow. If there are domestic labour shortages or inadequate wages (or a combination), then migrant labour is the immediate solution. If you don't like it you need to mobilise for taxation and public investment in skills, and wages for the jobs that you still, after all, want someone to be working in.

Migrants don't set migration law and policy, politicians and bureaucrats do. Migrants are no more to blame for being in the UK and working than any other worker. It is not appropriate to talk about people being "illegal" if you're then going to blur the lines and discuss the overall macroeconomics of migration. Firstly, most migration is both perfectly legal and encouraged, and secondly, what is legal migration varies, and is the object of the debate anyway. The drivers and the effects of migration are very rarely accurately represented in the press, they are distorted.

Brexit has not impacted nett migration and nor will the next pseudo-fascist populist promise to pull up the drawbridge. It's up to the people who let themselves get duped by this stuff to fucking grow up, pull themselves together and not get sold a pup again.

JazzG

Come out today Sue Gray is being paid more than the PM. She was asked to accept a bit below him but she declined, all this while telling other special advisers they need to take a pay cut. I do personally think the PM, MPs and special advisers need to be paid more, considering the pressure on them it is only fair they get well paid.

The funny thing is Labour are doing the exact same things they've spent years accusing the Tories of. They complained about Boris personal expenses, Rishi's wife wealth and I remember when Cummings got a big pay rise Starmer kicking off. The wheels have come off faster than expected, they wanted to give this image of them being professional unlike the Tories but it is starting to feel a bit like the Tories. Labour need to get their act together quickly here.

RocktheCasbah

JazzG I don't think the Labour party are anywhere close to the Tories level of corruption mate. And as for this Starmer box at Arsenal, which of you here honestly wouldn't take it if you could? I would. I know it isn't a great look for him given some of the campaign messaging, but nor is it at the level of the PPE contracts debacle, for example. And we shouldn't conflate the two.

Be interested to see if he digs in on it now (I also think he's a little damned if he does... etc), but I heard the report on ITV last night and it just feels like a non story to me.

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah I know it isn't a great look for him given some of the campaign messaging, but nor is it at the level of the PPE contracts debacle, for example. And we shouldn't conflate the two.

The thing is you have to have a zero tolerance position on these things if you want to stop those PPE type deals happening. Arsenal probably just want the PM at their matches for publicity but when you allow one thing you allow another. And if Starmer does it now when the Tories get back in the opposition will be toothless to challenge them when they do it.

JazzG

Has come out today that Arsenal are not providing the box but he is getting it via a donor, glad the club aren't giving it away for free because that would not reflect well on the club.

RocktheCasbah I don't think the Labour party are anywhere close to the Tories level of corruption mate. And as for this Starmer box at Arsenal, which of you here honestly wouldn't take it if you could? I would. I know it isn't a great look for him given some of the campaign messaging, but nor is it at the level of the PPE contracts debacle, for example. And we shouldn't conflate the two.

Be interested to see if he digs in on it now (I also think he's a little damned if he does... etc), but I heard the report on ITV last night and it just feels like a non story to me.

Labour have only been in for a few months so haven't had a chance to see what levels of corruption they will achieve but I do firmly believe that most politicians are corrupt at heart and I have no doubt their mates will be looked after. That guy showering him with gifts ain't doing it because he feels passionately about how the PM and his wife should look the part.

As for Starmer, he can't on one hand spend the last few years putting down the corrupt Tories but as soon as he got a whiff of power is being showered with gifts and happily taking them. I get what you are saying about why wouldn't you take a box for free but he has spent years going after the Tories but a complete hypocrite when it comes to him

The optics of all this is terrible as well, giving out massive union pay rises, taking over £100k in gifts and then stripping pensioners of their winter fuel allowance. Surely someone within the party knows better but there almost seems to a level of self-righteousness around them, almost like we know better don't question us. Some of the excuses of the MPs justifying this has been hilarious, the Conservatives would have been rightly battered for doing something like this.

I also don't think the PPE contracts etc is just purely down to corruption, I have no doubt there were some dodgy deals handed out to their mates but I think some of what happened was down to incompetence and people have made mugs of the government. At the time there was a worldwide shortage the media, public and opposition screaming out for more PPE when there was none so they went and just bought from anyone. Some of it was corruption and some of it was people taking the piss.

Next time there is a pandemic will these same people complaining about corruption be prepared to accept the delays to ensure we have rigorous procurement regulations to ensure no repeat of the corruption? If lives are lost while these contracts are properly checked who will be blamed? Rachel Reeves has set up a corruption probe but she also gave recommendations of companies to contact and turns out a lot of them were bogus. So I don't believe that if Labour had been in power no bad deals would taken place, easy to look at things in hindsight.

goon

I don't think it's a huge deal especially the biggest 'scandal' seems to be that he mis-categorised the gifts and then subsequently amended it. But politically Starmer's whole thing is being a serious, cleaner than clean politician to contrast him from his Tory predecessors. If he looses that too it's not like he can lean on his personality and charm.

Qwiss

goon If he looses that too it's not like he can lean on his personality and charm.

I also think its just a bad look for a Labour leader. You are supposed to at least present as a man of the people. Get in the crowd with the rest of the fans.

JazzG

Qwiss I also think its just a bad look for a Labour leader. You are supposed to at least present as a man of the people. Get in the crowd with the rest of the fans.

Thing is I get why he wouldn't go with the fans, it takes one looney and things could go horribly wrong and with political leaders being targetted it isn't a good idea for him. But Rishi Sunak sat in the directors box at Southampton so why can't Starmer do the same?

Mirth

Maybe he just really doesn’t like the new ballot system

GooneriC

Don't know why anyone's surprised by Starver. He's a liar and a hypocrite

JazzG

Burnwinter 4 in 10 migrants to the UK are working in health services or care work ... there's a consequence.

I'm not blaming the Migrants? I'm blaming the politicians who allow record number of people to come in while simultaneously not building more homes, more GPs/hospitals and let our already creaking infrastructure get even more run down.

Also another thing which even the unions acknowledge is when you bring in large number of migrants that drives down wages which in turn just brings down living standards. Which is why a lot of Unions were pro Brexit much to the shock of the more liberal left.

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