UK Politics Omnishambles: Page 110 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

UK Politics Omnishambles

Mirth

It's a product of FPTP that Tories and Labour spend more time infighting with their own party than each other.

But yeah, Corbyn wouldn't be getting in either. It's pretty apparent the country votes for anyone who is fiscally liberal, socially conservative but no party actually offers that so whoever is elected will be doomed to fail. The question is what comes next?

Looking at the rest of Europe, it won't be pretty:

goon

Mirth

There was a poll done the other day that showed Reforms second most popular voting group after the old farts were the youngest 18-25 grouping, which was pretty shocking.

Burnwinter

Mirth But yeah, Corbyn wouldn't be getting in either.

Corbyn would've been gone after 2019 anyway. Another left candidate could've walked it in at this poll if the left had played its hand rather differently when it held the NEC and a huge membership majority. They didn't permit themselves the killer instinct of creeps like Starmer.

Even the Labour 2019 platform was very moderate, boring, middle of the road social democratic stuff, the issue was that Brexit decisively split Labour's base ... no campaign was going to wiggle out of that one.

Starmer Labour is a sorry lot, all very well to say "safe pair of hands" or "not a demagogue" ... better than the Tories is too low a bar.

goon

JazzG

Yeah, they also tried pretty hard to to take over the NEC from what I remember.

Mirth

goon yeah, I saw that too but to put in context second place was around 11% and tied with the Greens and Lib Dems

Burnwinter

goon Short form video is responsible for this I reckon, there's been a rightward tilt among Gen Z down here too.

Mirth

Burnwinter They didn't permit themselves the killer instinct of creeps like Starmer.

eh, bit hard to claim Momentum weren't cut throat in the first place.

Labour infighting is a tale as old as time.

goon

Burnwinter Another left candidate could've walked it in at this poll if the left had played its hand rather differently when it held the NEC and a huge membership majority

Corbyn and Momentum led to an influx but I don’t think they ever had a die hard majority never mind a huge one. That same membership pretty overwhelmingly voted in Starmer over the Corbyn continuity candidate. That election result killed any prospect of that.

As for a low bar, it’s all relative. Being free is a pretty low bar, but after being held in captivity for 14 years I’d imagine it’d be a pretty sweat feeling.

I have to say though, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a party’s main campaign strategy be to not have any identifiable flagship policies.

Burnwinter

Mirth eh, bit hard to claim Momentum weren't cut throat in the first place.

Oh yes? Who'd they deselect? Serious question: I can't remember anyone of note, but perhaps there were some. Certainly nothing to compare with how Starmer has targeted people.

One big issue behind the scenes during Corbyn's first couple of years was Unite, with McCluskey continually throwing his weight around.

Burnwinter

goon I have to say though, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a party’s main campaign strategy be to not have any identifiable flagship policies.

To some extent, oddly enough, the right wing of UK Labour take their notes from the way Australian Labor does it, and have done so at least since Blair, who took notes on Hawke and Keating. "Blue Labour" advocacy groups like Progress have had plenty of Australian involvement. Albanese was elected using a similar "small target" strategy, and it's not led to an effective government. Anything ambitious they moot doing is now branded a "broken promise" by the usual clowns in the Murdoch papers.

JazzG

Looks like after an intervention by Angela Rayner and then the Scottish Labour leader today Starmer has caved in and Abbot will be allowed to stand.

Thing about Politics is, whether you make the right or wrong decision when you start doing U turns, that leads to more U Turns and people thinking you're weak. Clearly there is a power struggle within Labour and Starmer imo with the lead he has in the polls needed to be strong and just put his foot down.

awooga83

Labour and the left in general have always had infighting it's one thing the right seem to be able to get past when they are on track for power.

Fully agree the moves by Starmer look very bad, the way he's positioning the labour party doesn't look like he's representing what I would look for in labour and I wouldn't call myself far left. He's targeting the red wall electorate and taking much of the traditional base for granted. It may well work for the election but I'm not sure how much future there is in that if it stays that way.

JazzG

Yup Tories are going to be wiped out, Rishi's main goal is to minimise those losses.

awooga83 He's targeting the red wall electorate and taking much of the traditional base for granted. It may well work for the election but I'm not sure how much future there is in that if it stays that way.

Elections imo are usually won in the middle ground, that is how Blair and Cameron came into power. With Boris it was different as they made the election about Brexit and Corbyn. I think Starmer is trying to throw policies out there to keep the centre right and centre left happy.

goon

Same of the recent polling results are insane.

goon

20 points ahead with Opinium too which has had a narrower lead most of the time.

Surprised ‘dealing with Diane Abbot’ isn’t on there given it’s the only issue that matters for the mainstream media.

JazzG

This is one of the people that went on BBC to complain about her treatment by the Labour party, came across as being unfairly done but as soon as you scratch beneath the surface you see why they get thrown out. I think Starmer should take credit for booting people like her out.

goon Surprised ‘dealing with Diane Abbot’ isn’t on there given it’s the only issue that matters for the mainstream media.

I think the mainstream media have shown in the last few years they aren't really in sync with what the public really care about.

Mirth

goon Surprised ‘dealing with Diane Abbot’ isn’t on there given it’s the only issue that matters for the mainstream media.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-general-election-2024-b2558754.html

yeah, was a nothing burger for the electorate.

awooga83

I'm not fully up to speed with what she has done but the things I've seen reported seem fairly minor. Maybe there is some major one somewhere but I haven't seen it reported.

Again for me the labour party moving fully centre right and adopting many of the Tory economic policies would not be a very inspiring offer. The country needs something more ambitious in my view, it may well win an election but I don't think it'll really change the country and address many of the major underlying issues that exist.

GooneriC

Done what? Liked a tweet?Meanwhile , Labour replaces her with Shama Tatler , another Israeli Terrorist supporter . Just like Starmer .

JazzG

194 seat majority predicted!

goon

And that’s before Farage decided to run.

Some of the underlying facts behind that poll are crazy. Will lose red wall completely, will lose half of the blue wall and potentially all of London (less surprising given the ongoing trend but still surprising).

The funniest thing about it is that they’re going to take this defeat and conclude that they need to lean into being right wing populist nut jobs even more.

Mirth

goon And that’s before Farage decided to run.

They’re finished. Should be grateful if they get 100+ seats.

goon The funniest thing about it is that they’re going to take this defeat and conclude that they need to lean into being right wing populist nut jobs even more

Definitely. They’re going to go off the rails after the election. The trouble is they do have to deal with the moderates in their own party and it’ll take them a decade to unify and win back power at best.

JazzG

goon The funniest thing about it is that they’re going to take this defeat and conclude that they need to lean into being right wing populist nut jobs even more.

I think that is why Farage is standing. He probably feels he can take over the Conservatives once the dust is settled. The defeat is going to be so heavy that they’ll feel they will need to become a different party. They’ll now be a power struggle between the one nation Tory’s and the more right wing faction, it depends on who is left standing at the end!

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