England vs Iceland [Round of 16]: Page 18 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

England vs Iceland [Round of 16]

mdgoonah41

the thing that is so much different for a national team vs a club side is that the national team manager has a huge group of players to pick from, and he can pick from that group for every set of fixtures. for a club manager, if you go to a club like arsenal, you are limited by the players in the squad when you get there, and you know that you can realistically only change 5-6 of them at a time given the nature of the market and team chemistry, among other things.

if you are going to manage a national team, you need to know what formation you want to play and then pick the players that fit that formation. like rio said, you want to play 4-3-3 and dont take wingers, then what the fuck is the point? then you factor in that he wanted to play rooney no matter what, even if it meant playing him at a position that wouldnt benefit the team.

hes a shit manager. yes, the players were poor and didnt look committed. but its his job to get them to bust a gut and outwork their opponents. they probably realized he had no idea what he was doing so they shoudlnt bother either

Biggus

mdgoonah41 wrote:
the thing that is so much different for a national team vs a club side is that the national team manager has a huge group of players to pick from,

Not if you're the manager of Iceland you don't.

Dillinger

England are out of Europe twice in one week. Hilarious.

Gurgen

Burnwinter wrote:
Mirth wrote:
Those free kicks will never get old:

One of the strangest things I've seen in football.

😆 Holy shit, I hadn't seen that. Wow, Kane's a top, top player.

Distance to goal: 41m 😆

What a chump.

Kel Varnsen

I think the lack of proper full backs is one of England's biggest problems. Kyle Walker is worthless going forward and Danny Rose is nearly worthless going forward. Those two provide no width to the England attack and aren't capable of delivering decent crosses into the ball. Which leaves Sturridge and Sterling to themselves and it is difficult for any winger to create chances on their own, with no support from the full back.

Jed

When I said Kane was a fraud, I got stick on here. To be fair he has done well for two seasons at the scum, but I don't see him carrying it on any further. A steep decline beckons for what is a truly average footballer.

Qwiss

mdgoonah41 wrote:
the thing that is so much different for a national team vs a club side is that the national team manager has a huge group of players to pick from, and he can pick from that group for every set of fixtures. for a club manager, if you go to a club like arsenal, you are limited by the players in the squad when you get there, and you know that you can realistically only change 5-6 of them at a time given the nature of the market and team chemistry, among other things.

if you are going to manage a national team, you need to know what formation you want to play and then pick the players that fit that formation. like rio said, you want to play 4-3-3 and dont take wingers, then what the fuck is the point? then you factor in that he wanted to play rooney no matter what, even if it meant playing him at a position that wouldnt benefit the team.

hes a shit manager. yes, the players were poor and didnt look committed. but its his job to get them to bust a gut and outwork their opponents. they probably realized he had no idea what he was doing so they shoudlnt bother either

I agree with most of this. England has a massive group of players to choose from. No real world beaters but still an awful lot of very good players. The midfield Hodgson picked has been a joke from the start. Sticking with Kane when it obviously wasn't working is poor management. Allowing Rooney reputation rather than his ability to make him a guaranteed starter. Playing Danny Rose. Its just all poor management. There was a team there for England that could have topped the group and made it to the semis in this tournament.

Qwiss

And why did he change from a pretty successful system he used to qualify?

invisibleman18

Who let Kane continue to take set pieces? Free kicks are generally taken better at the level I play at.

Kel Varnsen

I don't think the front three is that bad, if he had built the rest of the team with a clear purpose. It's a bit similar to Liverpool's front three a few years ago. Clearly not as good, but good enough to create problems for any back four in this tournament. The problem was the midfield and full backs. They weren't able to win the ball in good positions and transition from defending to attacking quick enough. Instead they ended up playing some bizarre possession based football, with fairly average players on the ball. Strange.

Clrnc

Mirth wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
I don't think Hamann is wrong. The Premier League is full of poorly coached teams, filled mostly with athletically gifted players of a poor technical and tactical level when compared to players in Italy and Spain, at least.

And even when the likes of Conte and Guardiola improve the level of the teams they're going to it'll be players from countries other than England that will be the players of class and quality in those teams.

What Hamann says is irrelevant - we're not finishing behind Italy, Germany and Spain. The country would be delighted with that. We're struggling to beat Wales, Russia and Iceland. Wales themselves have gone further in the tournament and their players are subject to similar conditions as the English players.

England have won ONE game out of eight competitive matches over the years. Sure, there's a discussion to be had between the relative styles of the leagues - which I've often said - particularly when compared to the Champions League performances but it's got very little connection to do with the current state of the national team.

Hamann gloating and taking this as a stick to beat the premier league with. He always maintained that the Premier League is overrated and the Bundesliga is better with lesser money in it. It's not a surprise that he says this to gloat but his point doesn't stand at all.

This has got absolutely nothing to do with the league. There's a point to be made about what needs to be done at grassroots level and the youth system in general when England needs to match the big boys like Spain, Germany. But we are not even going that far when you are struggling to beat a team with a few players from Charlton Athletic in League 1, a full back who plays for Rotherham and several others from the Nordic Leagues. There are no excuses and there should be no excuses because the quality of the players are far off.

What we have witnessed yesterday was a team with clear game plan, playing in a system they are very familiarised with and designed to bring the best out of them. It is yet another example whereby a well organised team with great teamwork beat a bunch of stars. The individual quality is taken out of the equation when the everybody in the team has a clear defined role to play the game at. I would say too much is made out of how bad the England players are individually and the coach is the most culpable. Each and every of the England players should be good enough to beat Iceland.

Honestly, I don't know what the hell is Roy doing in this tournament, but specifically in yesterday's match he is extremely awful. There were plenty of chances to put the ball in, but because he played with 2 inverted wingers they always check back and the chances is gone. Never in the entire game did he think of switching Sturridge and Sterling so that they can whip crosses in with their stronger foot with plenty of bodies in the box. Defensively they were shambolic as well and it's not surprising Gary Neville is in charge of that. It is one of the most inept coaching display ever and don't even get me started with the setpieces and Rooney as the pivot spraying balls to the Icelandic players.

Full credit though to Lars Lagerback. There's a reason why he has never lost to England in previous 6 encounters.

Gurgen

Qwiss! wrote:
mdgoonah41 wrote:
the thing that is so much different for a national team vs a club side is that the national team manager has a huge group of players to pick from, and he can pick from that group for every set of fixtures. for a club manager, if you go to a club like arsenal, you are limited by the players in the squad when you get there, and you know that you can realistically only change 5-6 of them at a time given the nature of the market and team chemistry, among other things.

if you are going to manage a national team, you need to know what formation you want to play and then pick the players that fit that formation. like rio said, you want to play 4-3-3 and dont take wingers, then what the fuck is the point? then you factor in that he wanted to play rooney no matter what, even if it meant playing him at a position that wouldnt benefit the team.

hes a shit manager. yes, the players were poor and didnt look committed. but its his job to get them to bust a gut and outwork their opponents. they probably realized he had no idea what he was doing so they shoudlnt bother either

I agree with most of this. England has a massive group of players to choose from. No real world beaters but still an awful lot of very good players. The midfield Hodgson picked has been a joke from the start. Sticking with Kane when it obviously wasn't working is poor management. Allowing Rooney reputation rather than his ability to make him a guaranteed starter. Playing Danny Rose. Its just all poor management. There was a team there for England that could have topped the group and made it to the semis in this tournament.

That's the story with all England managers though, none of them has the balls to bench established players. It was the same when it was obvious to everyone that Gerrard should be on the bench instead of Lampard, but no-one dared to do it. Playing Rooney is madness. Playing a guy like Kane is madness. England has two quality strikers in Sturridge and Vardy, yet one of them was on the wing and one of them was on the bench. Just play 4-4-2 with those guys, what's so hard?

Burnwinter

Pretty funny they're talking about Hiddink now. Should've signed him up six months ago, he probably would've walked them into the semis.

Qwiss

Gurgen wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
I agree with most of this. England has a massive group of players to choose from. No real world beaters but still an awful lot of very good players. The midfield Hodgson picked has been a joke from the start. Sticking with Kane when it obviously wasn't working is poor management. Allowing Rooney reputation rather than his ability to make him a guaranteed starter. Playing Danny Rose. Its just all poor management. There was a team there for England that could have topped the group and made it to the semis in this tournament.

That's the story with all England managers though, none of them has the balls to bench established players. It was the same when it was obvious to everyone that Gerrard should be on the bench instead of Lampard, but no-one dared to do it. Playing Rooney is madness. Playing a guy like Kane is madness. England has two quality strikers in Sturridge and Vardy, yet one of them was on the wing and one of them was on the bench. Just play 4-4-2 with those guys, what's so hard?

Even 442 with Kane and one of the others where he might get some space near goal instead of taking pot shots from deep. It was just a complete tactical failure from Hodgson. Its not even like England missed some good chances, they created virtually nothing. They're lucky they didn't lose by more.

Mirth

Welsh squad celebrating after the result:

Dula might not want to see this.

Segway

A bit excessive? 😆

invisibleman18

What the fuck is it to them? As if they've won the tournament.

Mirth

I bet the Scottish NT were doing the same - and they're not even at the tournament!

Meatwad

Mirth wrote:
I bet the Scottish NT were doing the same - and they're not even at the tournament!

i can imagine because if wales is the one that voted leave like the rest of england, then it'd be interesting to see the countries that have a polar opposite view.

dreamlord

Mirth wrote:
Those free kicks will never get old:

One of the strangest things I've seen in football.

😆 Fucking lost it at the music. I'd heard it on YouTube before but this is the best usage of it ever.

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