HOUSEBOAT - Warning: tenuous links ahead!: Page 456 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

HOUSEBOAT - Warning: tenuous links ahead!

Rohit

Yeah, watched him at the Copa America. Very underwhelmed.

Big Willie

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
Plus wasn't Dules one of Ivan Toney's biggest hype mans on OMITT?

Not me guv! Good player and prospect but I’m more of a Vlahovic dreamer

My bad then bro. I remember there was someone who was constantly wishlisting Toney last season and for some reason thought it was you.

Clrnc

Toney was me. Still would rather him than Abraham if we are paying 40m

BWooley

Rohit wrote:
Yeah, watched him at the Copa America. Very underwhelmed.

It's sad. Edu and Arteta need to go as of yesterday. It's amazing that a club our size has managed to go so many years without a single competent football executive, Wenger notwithstanding.

Qwiss

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
40m for Abraham, fuck off with that. Could probably get someone proven like Andre Silva for that kind of money.

Price is too high but he's a decent player. Think he'd actually suit Artetas style well. If Ben Whites worth £50m I suppose Abraham is worth £40m (obviously neither are).

Clrnc

Reading on twitter, seems like this guy is reliable. Bell number 2.

Says Sassuolo accepted our offer for Locatelli, 40+5m. Juventus offer of loan + mandatory buy 30m rejected.

mentalvortex

Highlights for Koopmeiners we have have been linked with.

Meatwad

highlights can make anyone look good. atalanta's interest is most important, they actually know what they're doing.

Jed

Truth. The only reason I’m feeling that Lokonga kid is due to Atalanta’s interest in him.

speedy

Qwiss! wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
40m for Abraham, fuck off with that. Could probably get someone proven like Andre Silva for that kind of money.

Price is too high but he's a decent player. Think he'd actually suit Artetas style well. If Ben Whites worth £50m I suppose Abraham is worth £40m (obviously neither are).

He's quite basic. You could see he had no ideas against our defense when we can up against him. If we end up with him it'll be because he's the last option on the list and the first one available to us.

speedy

Clrnc wrote:

Reading on twitter, seems like this guy is reliable. Bell number 2.

Says Sassuolo accepted our offer for Locatelli, 40+5m. Juventus offer of loan + mandatory buy 30m rejected.

It'll be a miracle if we get this guy. All along the rumours were sassuolo were interested to sell but he's not interested in being here.

speedy

BWooley wrote:
Rohit wrote:
Yeah, watched him at the Copa America. Very underwhelmed.

It's sad. Edu and Arteta need to go as of yesterday. It's amazing that a club our size has managed to go so many years without a single competent football executive, Wenger notwithstanding.

We've the 5th biggest wage bill. So you'd expect us to come 5th. We had a rebuild and dropped to 8th. It's all pretty standard stuff.

Gazza M

when did our 'rebuild' start exactly? because clubs with smaller wage bills have leapfrogged us in the last 5 years. they didn't just expect to finish where their wage bill dictated they were 'supposed' to.

speedy

Gazza M wrote:
when did our 'rebuild' start exactly? because clubs with smaller wage bills have leapfrogged us in the last 5 years. they didn't just expect to finish where their wage bill dictated they were 'supposed' to.

It's not super complicated, if you line up the wages bills and the league table they're pretty similar so it's a decent indicator. Not the height of ambition. Liverpool worked their way back up the table after 2 decades. These things can happen. I said fire Wenger and bring in klopp when he was available.

Clrnc

The manager is still the biggest denominator. He must know what he is doing. If you put a rebuild to a wrong guy you can waste half a decade trying to undo his errors.

speedy

Clrnc wrote:
The manager is still the biggest denominator. He must know what he is doing. If you put a rebuild to a wrong guy you can waste half a decade trying to undo his errors.

Even in peak Wenger times, we won the league when ManU had dips. We never won back to back titles. Dortmund win the league when Bayern dip. And athletico win the league when both real and Barca dip. We need 4 teams to dip at once. Or an absolute wonder manager and a shit ton of luck.

Ray

speedy wrote:
Gazza M wrote:
when did our 'rebuild' start exactly? because clubs with smaller wage bills have leapfrogged us in the last 5 years. they didn't just expect to finish where their wage bill dictated they were 'supposed' to.

It's not super complicated, if you line up the wages bills and the league table they're pretty similar so it's a decent indicator. Not the height of ambition. Liverpool worked their way back up the table after 2 decades. These things can happen. I said fire Wenger and bring in klopp when he was available.

If that was true Utd should have won a couple of league titles the past few years having consistently had the biggest wage bill for years.

Looking at it this simplistically makes no sense. We may have had the 5th biggest wage bill on the whole yet we also had the most expensive player wage wise in Ozil.

Wenger starting dropping out of the top 4 when the likes of Pep, Klopp, Pochetino, Jose etc came into the league and simply put were better managers. Arteta isn’t even on par with Brendan let alone the top 4.

speedy

Ray wrote:
speedy wrote:
It's not super complicated, if you line up the wages bills and the league table they're pretty similar so it's a decent indicator. Not the height of ambition. Liverpool worked their way back up the table after 2 decades. These things can happen. I said fire Wenger and bring in klopp when he was available.

If that was true Utd should have won a couple of league titles the past few years having consistently had the biggest wage bill for years.

Looking at it this simplistically makes no sense. We may have had the 5th biggest wage bill on the whole yet we also had the most expensive player wage wise in Ozil.

Wenger starting dropping out of the top 4 when the likes of Pep, Klopp, Pochetino, Jose etc came into the league and simply put were better managers. Arteta isn’t even on par with Brendan let alone the top 4.

I'm saying teams have dips we had dips and other teams went past us. I'm suggesting that's standard.

If the managers the biggest factor then the wage bill wouldn't have a strong correlation to league position. How would you explain that? Money is the biggest factor psg city and Chelsea etc ahve all shown that. All those teams have dips. We have 4 richer clubs than us above us. They'll have dips and we can get into the top 4 again. IT's just not super easy to wint he league form our position. How often does the 5th richest team in any league win the title? I haven't checked the stats but I'd imagine its not too often. No matter what manager is in charge. If its easy for the 5th richest team to win the league then go bet on them in each division you'll get fantastic odds for a very good reason. And theirs a differnt amanger in charge fo each of them so it's not because of who is in charge.

Ray

speedy wrote:
Ray wrote:
If that was true Utd should have won a couple of league titles the past few years having consistently had the biggest wage bill for years.

Looking at it this simplistically makes no sense. We may have had the 5th biggest wage bill on the whole yet we also had the most expensive player wage wise in Ozil.

Wenger starting dropping out of the top 4 when the likes of Pep, Klopp, Pochetino, Jose etc came into the league and simply put were better managers. Arteta isn’t even on par with Brendan let alone the top 4.

I'm saying teams have dips we had dips and other teams went past us. I'm suggesting that's standard.

If the managers the biggest factor then the wage bill wouldn't have a strong correlation to league position. How would you explain that? Money is the biggest factor psg city and Chelsea etc ahve all shown that. All those teams have dips. We have 4 richer clubs than us above us. They'll have dips and we can get into the top 4 again. IT's just not super easy to wint he league form our position. How often does the 5th richest team in any league win the title? I haven't checked the stats but I'd imagine its not too often. No matter what manager is in charge. If its easy for the 5th richest team to win the league then go bet on them in each division you'll get fantastic odds for a very good reason. And theirs a differnt amanger in charge fo each of them so it's not because of who is in charge.

You said wage bill = league position. Which is far too simplistic, otherwise Utd would have multiple titles in the past few years, how do you explain them not winning a title for a decade and even finishing below us despite spending the most in the league? Possibly to do with the fact they've had rubbish managers and DoF for the past few years.

And no one is expecting Arteta to win the league, the target is top 4 for him, and even that isn't realistic for him and I don't see him finishing above the likes of Leicester who have spent much less than us.

What I'm saying is there is a combination of reasons for why a club finishes where they do, the manager in charge, identifying players, transfers, wage bill etc. To just say wage bill = league position and absolve the manager of any responsibility is ridiculous.

Klaus

How on earth was Pochettino a better manager than Wenger? He's just Wenger without any kind of success, historical or present. He got hyped to the heavens for having peaks that barely matched Wenger's weakest latter-day seasons. That says more about how unique Wenger was than how good Pochettino is I reckon, but still. Not even in the same stratosphere as managers. Wenger is going to go down as one of the most legendary managers in the game. No one will remember Pochettino any more than they remember Villas-Boas.

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