arsenal finances thread: Page 12 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

arsenal finances thread

Meatwad

a lot of you being melodramatic.

remember to thank david dein for bringing him on board because he was a petty asshole. and remember to thank his agent son for always actively trying to move his arsenal players.

Rohit

Anzac wrote:
Rohit wrote:
I don't like Kroenke but I am not as cynical about him either. I am glad Usmanov is out too, let him take his dirty money to Everton.

We have been modernizing for the last year now, don't think that will somehow discontinue because he owns the lot. We might just be making our first $ 100 Million signing if Gurjit's sources are to be believed 😉

Kroenke is not stupid, and he knows damn well that it's going to take some spectacular moves on the team in order to balance the books with the supporters.

Well, that's great then, we will see investment in the first team.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Wish I could be so optimistic.

Klaus

Mirth wrote:
This is all David Dein's fault.

Aye, bloke was a real snake in the grass. Never lifted a finger without looking out for himself. He helped create the Premier League format and opened the door for oligarchs and rich investors in the league, burdened us with Kroenke and Usmanov, and then made _£60 million from his shares once he sold them to the worst possible prospector. He didn't care the slightest about the kind of people he sold us out to as long as he got his payday.

Either way, Usmanov being gone is brilliant news. The man is a stain on humanity.

Qwiss

awooga83 wrote:
I don't think he'll strip the club but will take out regular money/profit which will impact the club's ability to compete.

Why hasn't he been doing that then? Usmanov wanted dividends but Kroenke did not. He took some money for that management fee or whatever it was but that was a relatively small amount and I don't think we ever got any info on what that was actually for.

Not that Kroenke is benevolent or anything, I just think he has bigger plans than taking money out here and there that will weaken us. I think he's waiting for the big pay day when he can sell for as much as possible.

QuincyAbeyie

Yeah, the idea that he's a business man that cares about money and will therefore bleed the club dry is a weird one. If he cares about money there's more of that in making us competetive than in causing us to fade into obscurity. We want success, he wants the club to be worth more. Luckily those interests don't clash.

jones

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
. We want success, he wants the club to be worth more. Luckily those interests don't clash.

Did you ever work in a plc? Those interests absolutely do clash. Not by design but in reality success for the majority and for the ruling elite are usually at odds

It's not as easy as saying someone who's not taking money out of the club is - even as a rule of thumb - a good owner. Kroenke doesn't have any football nous but what's way worse is he's very risk averse. He obviously shouldn't make any decisions but his overall mindset does play a big role in whatever decisions are taken on executive and managerial level

QuincyAbeyie

No, I haven't. The risk averse part of it all is what I find most worrying about this. I hope that as he owns several clubs and, as you say, no football nous, he won't be very hands-on and will leave most decisions to people like Gazidis (/his successor).

MistaT

The value of the club will be his utmost concern, and the happiness of supporters will fall second to that. That's not to say he won't strive for a competitive team, just that he'll desire a competitive team more for the financial value it instills rather than the joy it brings.

The club is sought after because it has a new/modern stadium, is in a major city, will sell out regularly due to tourists, and has great commercial appeal. Unfortunately, the value of players and/or our academy is secondary to all of those factors, and I'd imagine Kroenke will look to maximize value from commercial deals/broadcast rights more so than by putting out a great product.

Meatwad

that makes no sense because you don't get great commercial deals if players and supporters are your secondary concern. also fan tourism will dry up if the club isn't seen as elite. he has all the incentive in the world to maximize his investment.

just like he's doing with the los angeles rams. when they were in st louis he let a lame manager run the team down and the team left for la and now they're one of the favorites to win the super bowl with a great young coach. if wenger didn't run the team into the ground (relatively speaking) it would have cost him more to buy up the remaining shares. with 100% ownership he's all in.

JazzG

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Yeah, the idea that he's a business man that cares about money and will therefore bleed the club dry is a weird one. If he cares about money there's more of that in making us competetive than in causing us to fade into obscurity. We want success, he wants the club to be worth more. Luckily those interests don't clash.

He's probably spent like £800m-£900m taking control of the entire club. The club is probably worth double that. If he was to sell all the players, training ground and stadium he'd barely make his money back let alone get close to the £1.8bn valuation. The real value is in the massive revenue stream and potential to further increase that. To keep that up he needs to keep the club valuable to sponsors and somewhat competitive. So this theory some people have that he will run the club into the ground is a strange one, he'd be losing money in doing so.

He'll either gear up against us or in the future he may stick us on the stock market again and take a lot of his money back out. He will take a lot of money out of the club but if I had coughed up that much money to buy a business then you are well within your right to do so.

Mirth

jones wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
. We want success, he wants the club to be worth more. Luckily those interests don't clash.

Did you ever work in a plc? Those interests absolutely do clash. Not by design but in reality success for the majority and for the ruling elite are usually at odds

It's not as easy as saying someone who's not taking money out of the club is - even as a rule of thumb - a good owner. Kroenke doesn't have any football nous but what's way worse is he's very risk averse. He obviously shouldn't make any decisions but his overall mindset does play a big role in whatever decisions are taken on executive and managerial level

One area of divergence is that most fans view players as an investment into the club. Whereas Kroenke has been more willing to oversee/approve money being put into the medical and training facilities instead.

If I had no interest in Arsenal, I can see why that's a better move long term to retain the club's 'value' but from a short term perspective I can't see Kroenke demanding anything more than the Champions league - mainly because of the extra revenue and tv deals that the club would be entitled to. Winning the league on the other hand would require sanctioning half a billion into the team and even then there will always been one or two other clubs that could steal a title off your plate.

Qwiss

MistaT wrote:
will sell out regularly due to tourists, and has great commercial appeal.

It wont sell out regularly though and they wont be able to raise ticket prices if the team isn't successful. The club has less commercial value when its unsuccessful too, if we don't get back in the CL in the next couple of seasons our commercial value will plummet.

jones

Mirth wrote:
jones wrote:
Did you ever work in a plc? Those interests absolutely do clash. Not by design but in reality success for the majority and for the ruling elite are usually at odds

It's not as easy as saying someone who's not taking money out of the club is - even as a rule of thumb - a good owner. Kroenke doesn't have any football nous but what's way worse is he's very risk averse. He obviously shouldn't make any decisions but his overall mindset does play a big role in whatever decisions are taken on executive and managerial level

One area of divergence is that most fans view players as an investment into the club. Whereas Kroenke has been more willing to oversee/approve money being put into the medical and training facilities instead.

If I had no interest in Arsenal, I can see why that's a better move long term to retain the club's 'value' but from a short term perspective I can't see Kroenke demanding anything more than the Champions league - mainly because of the extra revenue and tv deals that the club would be entitled to. Winning the league on the other hand would require sanctioning half a billion into the team and even then there will always been one or two other clubs that could steal a title off your plate.

Stuff like new facilities is probably the easiest investment any owner or CEO can make, not too expensive on the books, good look and the semi-tangible gain you have with having new shiny ones, the bad rep and very tangible consequences if you put your employees in some rundown warehouse.

Agreed 100% with the rest of the post

goon

Best way to create value and revenue growth is with success on the pitch. Companies spend shit loads on marketing and PR (it's one of the biggest expenses on my companies P&L). In the context of football that's what happens on the pitch. Stan my not 'demand' winning the league but he'd be stupid not to make that the target for the likes of Sven, Raul and Ivan. Their challenge is to do it in a sustainable way and I don't think it's out of reach.

Mirth

jones wrote:
Mirth wrote:
One area of divergence is that most fans view players as an investment into the club. Whereas Kroenke has been more willing to oversee/approve money being put into the medical and training facilities instead.

If I had no interest in Arsenal, I can see why that's a better move long term to retain the club's 'value' but from a short term perspective I can't see Kroenke demanding anything more than the Champions league - mainly because of the extra revenue and tv deals that the club would be entitled to. Winning the league on the other hand would require sanctioning half a billion into the team and even then there will always been one or two other clubs that could steal a title off your plate.

Stuff like new facilities is probably the easiest investment any owner or CEO can make, not too expensive on the books, good look and the semi-tangible gain you have with having new shiny ones, the bad rep and very tangible consequences if you put your employees in some rundown warehouse.

True, I'm just saying he's not going for a scorched earth policy with the club which is what some comments on here and by the AST would have you believe. He'll make investments, just low risk or common sense improvements to the infrastructure of the club. For instance, last years upgrade to the training ground cost £5m and he doesn't have to worry about writing that money off unlike a player who could get injured or become shit. Ultimately the club will still sign the occasional Aubameyang or Ozil when the opportunity presents itself but I can't see us being as aggressive as Liverpool have been these past two years, never mind City or PSG.

Tbh if this was any other business I'd say he's probably doing the right thing but football in general has gone a bit mad recently so I'd be a lot happier if Kroenke decided he'd rather sell up and run a hotel chain instead.

goon

Also, he sacrificed 60m on Sanchez, took the same gamble on Ozil before handing him one of the biggest contracts in the league and then spent 60m on Auba, soon to be 29yrs old. He's clearly willing to invest the clubs money on where it needs to go to improve our efforts on the pitch. It certainly doesn't fit some of the narratives we're hearing.

awooga83

Qwiss! wrote:
awooga83 wrote:
I don't think he'll strip the club but will take out regular money/profit which will impact the club's ability to compete.

Why hasn't he been doing that then? Usmanov wanted dividends but Kroenke did not. He took some money for that management fee or whatever it was but that was a relatively small amount and I don't think we ever got any info on what that was actually for.

Not that Kroenke is benevolent or anything, I just think he has bigger plans than taking money out here and there that will weaken us. I think he's waiting for the big pay day when he can sell for as much as possible.

Your right hehalready did take money out,3m over 2 previous seasons that was never explained and seemed to stop when scrutiny was applied at AGM.

He has never put his money into the club so we won't be seeing any financial benefit and most likely he'll be taking profit that won't be invested back into the club.

Guardian article highlights some of the concerns I have namely the claim that this won't incur any debt on Arsenal but we won't know because he won't need to disclose and won't be putting money in.

awooga83

goon wrote:
Also, he sacrificed 60m on Sanchez, took the same gamble on Ozil before handing him one of the biggest contracts in the league and then spent 60m on Auba, soon to be 29yrs old. He's clearly willing to invest the clubs money on where it needs to go to improve our efforts on the pitch. It certainly doesn't fit some of the narratives we're hearing.

Never questioned his willingness to spend the club's money but he does not contribute his own resources which is what's necessary to take us to the next level in terms of seriously competing for the major honours. Also as his backing of Wenger the precious season he cannot be that bothered about winning major trophies or he wouldn't have been so quick to back him and his results.

goon

Completely disagree, we’ve got the 5th or 6th largest revanue in the world. You think the Liverpool owners who everyone seems to fawn over invest any of their own money? And even if it were a requirement, I’ve never wanted a sugar daddie to help us win things anyway.

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