General football 2015/16: Page 32 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

General football 2015/16

jones

Lukaku has flaws in his game that he seems unlikely to iron out. He's a physical freak on par with your Ibrahimovics but his technique or passing will never be world class; I reckon most don't want another limited striker after we finally get to replace Giroud.

Also personally I don't like how he's always so greedy in front of goal, I've seen him mess up loads of good chances for his team mates because of that. People can keep on harping about how that's necessary for a striker but that's horseshit, prime Henry pisses on all these "necessarily greedy" strikers in terms of goalscoring and still got around 20 assists every season. A top class striker is confident enough to score from difficult positions but won't mess up chances because he feels his tally is more important than the team.

marv3llous

Im sure Lukaku will go to a top 4 team again btw. His scoring record is very good and i have a feeling ManU may be looking at him. That said, he feels like a big fish in a small pond type of player.

Segway

I think his technique has improved markedly this season. Besides, he's only 22 so there is still plenty of time for him to improve. His goal scoring record for Everton becomes even more impressive considering who is supplying him his chances. Also he's usually the only player in the box yet still manages to find space through great movement. Can't remember seeing him being selfish and it's a bit unfair to compare anyone to Henry. Every striker in world football would come up short in such a comparison.

jones

Henry was just one example, we could look at other strikers we had. Would you rather our next CF be closer to RVP or Adebayor (abilitywise obviously)? Lukaku is much closer to the former; if it's possible to look at other strikers with better technique (especially given the fee Everton would want) we should definitely do it

Also his age is of course a plus but in his case I don't feel he'll improve as much as many seem to think. Players who've been physical specimens from a young age often struggle to further improve in the second half of their career. He'll become a better striker but he'll always be a good notch beneath world class I reckon.

Segway

Since we play with only one striker I would rather have a physical goal scoring beast than say a Berardi.

I also disagree that he'll always be considered a good notch beneath world class. If he scores +20 league goals in England the next 10 seasons (which is far from unrealistic) of course he'll be considered world class.

Claudius

The thing that delights me is that even though he's built like a wardrobe, he's both fast and energetic. He's always happy to chase balls. Everton are forever hoofing up balls for him to chase, and he pursues them with commitment.
That said, he can definitely exploit his physicality more on set pieces, not just when he's running at people.

Claudius

If you're feeling low today, here's the remedy:
The CIES Football Observatory published its annual football player valuations this week. The top 30 are

Lionel Messi (Barcelona) - £185million
Neymar (Barcelona) - £113m
Eden Hazard (Chelsea) - £96m
Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid) - £84m
Harry Kane (Tottenham) - £67m
Raheem Sterling (Manchester City) - £66m
Antonine Griezmann (Atletico Madrid) - £65m
Luis Suarez (Barcelona) - £64m
Sergio Aguero (Manchester City) - £60m
Alexis Sanchez (Arsenal) - £60m
Anthony Martial (Manchester United) - £58m
Paul Pogba (Juventus) - £57m
13=. Kevin De Bruyne (Manchester City) - £54m
13=. Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool) - £54m
Thomas Muller (Bayern Munich) - £52m
Robert Lewandowski (Bayern) - £51m
Gareth Bale (Real Madrid) - £51m
Romelu Lukaku (Everton) - £50m
Diego Costa (Chelsea) - £48m
Paulo Dybala (Juventus) - £46m
Isco (Real Madrid) - £46m
Cesc Fabregas (Chelsea) - £44m
Gonzalo Higuain (Napoli) - £43m
James Rodriguez (Real Madrid) - £43m
Toni Kroos (Real Madrid) - £41m
Marco Verratti (PSG) - £38m
Mesut Ozil (Arsenal) - £38m
Sergio Busquets (Barcelona) - £37m
Mauro Icardi (Inter) - £37m
Koke (Atletico Madrid) - £36m

Rex

jones wrote:
Henry was just one example, we could look at other strikers we had. Would you rather our next CF be closer to RVP or Adebayor (abilitywise obviously)? Lukaku is much closer to the former; if it's possible to look at other strikers with better technique (especially given the fee Everton would want) we should definitely do it

Also his age is of course a plus but in his case I don't feel he'll improve as much as many seem to think. Players who've been physical specimens from a young age often struggle to further improve in the second half of their career. He'll become a better striker but he'll always be a good notch beneath world class I reckon.

Zlatan was always a physical freak, but to compare him at 22 with the player he is today is like night and day. I see nothing in Lukaku which indicates that he should not improve further. In fact, he came to this league as a 16-17 year old who was massively hyped up with a reputation of bullying defenders in the Belgian league. I think he has shown great mental fortitude to just play on and work on his game despite Chelsea not giving him the time of day for years. On top of that, he has during his loan spells shown he can produce in different teams, under different managers, and in different systems.
I was totally on board the Lukaku train when he was still a Chelsea player, and especially so in consideration to what we have.

Qwiss

Harry Kane (Tottenham) - £67m

😆

Rex

I fail to see the point of such lists.

Claudius

Qwiss! wrote:
Harry Kane (Tottenham) - £67m

😆

Imagine! There at least a dozen Premier League players more valuable than Ozil. F&cking hell.

jones

Segway wrote:
Since we play with only one striker I would rather have a physical goal scoring beast than say a Berardi.

I also disagree that he'll always be considered a good notch beneath world class. If he scores +20 league goals in England the next 10 seasons (which is far from unrealistic) of course he'll be considered world class.

We play with only one striker but have several goal scorers (or should be) like Alexis, Theo, Özil or the next winger we get hopefully. With Berardi you'd probably get five goals fewer from in the beginning but around 15 goals more spread over the squad, to give a simple example.

Not sure about Lukaku's goalscoring. I'm pretty sure he won't score 20+ league goals the next 10 seasons, that would only happen if he has no injuries at all (as I think injuries would throw him quite a bit off his game) and more importantly that would mean he'd become one of the greatest EPL strikers of all time, tall order from someone who has a lot of matches in his legs already. Then again Yakubu scored about 15+ in the league for six or seven seasons and would've gotten more if it weren't for injuries, nobody ever considered him world class.

Ricky1985

Watched extended highlights of the Everton-City game, didn't know the result so it was a fun watch.

Don't know whether to blame Lukaku for being caught offside umpteen times when he could have scored, or the passer, invariably Deleofeu, taking too long - bit of both.

Good to see Everton come through in the end because it looked like they thoroughly deserved it.

And what a truly pathetic lump Yaya Toure has become! Watching him try and run and tackle when he got moved back into a holding midfield role was absolutely hilarious. 😆 Joke of a footballer these days.

And kudos to Sagna, it looked like he kept them in the tie on his own in the end.

jones

Think the funniest thing on that list aren't the completely insane valuations but the fact that these guys seriously call themselves CIES Football Observatory. I can 100% imagine a bunch of nerdy assholes compiling this horseshit in lab coats and thinking they are actual scientists.

Segway

jones wrote:
Segway wrote:
Since we play with only one striker I would rather have a physical goal scoring beast than say a Berardi.

I also disagree that he'll always be considered a good notch beneath world class. If he scores +20 league goals in England the next 10 seasons (which is far from unrealistic) of course he'll be considered world class.

We play with only one striker but have several goal scorers (or should be) like Alexis, Theo, Özil or the next winger we get hopefully. With Berardi you'd probably get five goals fewer from in the beginning but around 15 goals more spread over the squad, to give a simple example.

Not sure about Lukaku's goalscoring. I'm pretty sure he won't score 20+ league goals the next 10 seasons, that would only happen if he has no injuries at all (as I think injuries would throw him quite a bit off his game) and more importantly that would mean he'd become one of the greatest EPL strikers of all time, tall order from someone who has a lot of matches in his legs already. Then again Yakubu scored about 15+ in the league for six or seven seasons and would've gotten more if it weren't for injuries, nobody ever considered him world class.

I'm pretty sure Lukaku would provide a lot more for his team mates if those were the likes of Alexis and Özil rather than Deulofeu and Barkley. What I meant was that I want a physical presence who can hold onto the ball and win aerial duels AND score goals like Lukuku rather than a small creative forward.

Considering his age and current output, I don't think it's unreasonable to think he might score that amount of goals to make him one of the best strikers in the history of the league. Especially if he moves from Everton to us for example.

Qwiss

Lukaku already has 5 league assists for the season. Its not bad going when you're support is Kone, McGeady, Deulofeu, Naismith, etc

jones

Berardi is just an inch or two shorter than Lukaku but yeah I get your point. It's something of a personal preference, Lukaku would do the business for us but as I've mentioned in other threads I'm not very fond of players who are interested in personal glory/goal tally more than helping the team out.

I'd also would love someone up front for us with the skills on the ball of say a Berardi or Gabbiadini, we haven't had that for a while

Rex

Yup. Lukaku and Aubameyang were the players to get last summer. Now, after their breakout seasons, both players will cost an absolute bomb.

Claudius

jones wrote:
Think the funniest thing on that list aren't the completely insane valuations but the fact that these guys seriously call themselves CIES Football Observatory. I can 100% imagine a bunch of nerdy assholes compiling this horseshit in lab coats and thinking they are actual scientists.

i'm happy for them to be as scientific as they want, but they also need to be hypothesis-driven.
when your output tells you that Kane's fee would represent the 6th most expensive transfer of all time (behind only Bale, Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Rodriguez), and that Coutinho is worth 50% more than Ozil, you need to rebuild your model.

jones

Claudius wrote:
jones wrote:
Think the funniest thing on that list aren't the completely insane valuations but the fact that these guys seriously call themselves CIES Football Observatory. I can 100% imagine a bunch of nerdy assholes compiling this horseshit in lab coats and thinking they are actual scientists.

i'm happy for them to be as scientific as they want, but they also need to be hypothesis-driven.
when your output tells you that Kane's fee would represent the 6th most expensive transfer of all time (behind only Bale, Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Rodriguez), and that Coutinho is worth 50% more than Ozil, you need to rebuild your model.

That's what I was saying basically, being scientific doesn't mean you're allowed to abandon common sense. Their name and list reek of a bunch of guys sitting in an ivory tower wading through a bunch of stats and Sky articles but never actually watching games of football.

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