Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?: Page 44 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?

Clrnc

It's really hard to understand what our CMs are doing every game these days.

Clip 1: Flamini gets himself man marked so Gabriel has absolutely no one to pass to and passed back to Cech

Clip 2: Once again, Flamini is behind an opposition and Alexis have to come deep to provide a passing option.

In both instances, Flamini tries to be the deepest midfielder to receive the ball but is not in a good position to do so, which resulted in play going backwards or rushed to our forward. No surprises as well both times Ramsey is way ahead of the ball. Such nonsense can't continue surely. I refuse to believe Ramsey is that stupid anyway, might have something to do with Wenger's instructions.

dreamlord

Yep, Sanchez was playing like a CM at times. Even that pass to Ozil for the brilliant touch was from the halfway line.

Klaus

We solve one issue and create two new ones in the process. It's classic Wengerball.

Clrnc

Not saying it's always a bad thing but sometimes Wenger gives too much positional freedom to our players. It's a huge contrast to Pep's style like what Henry described the other day. Alexis never come deep for the ball at Barca, he is always looking over the edge of the last defender for a through ball. Ramsey would have been subbed off by half time if he had these sort of discipline under a coach like this. And this is also one of the reasons why we always struggle against a pressing team without a proper game plan.

Bold Tone

Clrnc wrote:
It's really hard to understand what our CMs are doing every game these days.

Clip 1: Flamini gets himself man marked so Gabriel has absolutely no one to pass to and passed back to Cech

Clip 2: Once again, Flamini is behind an opposition and Alexis have to come deep to provide a passing option.

In both instances, Flamini tries to be the deepest midfielder to receive the ball but is not in a good position to do so, which resulted in play going backwards or rushed to our forward. No surprises as well both times Ramsey is way ahead of the ball. Such nonsense can't continue surely. I refuse to believe Ramsey is that stupid anyway, might have something to do with Wenger's instructions.

That i refuse to believe.
No way can Wenger be telling Ramsey, as a CM, to not show for the ball.
Why did he not say the same to Arteta and Cazorla?
Coquelin, for all his limitations, always runs towards the ball providing a passing angle.
It was simply shit midfield play and Sanchez was forced to come in, far to often, to do a creative job for us.
Flamini, i understand, as he is playing the Walcott on the pitch who doesn't want the ball as he knows he isn't good enough.
I've done the same when playing without confidence against players much better than me but my excuse is i'm not a professional.

goon

Clrnc wrote:
Not saying it's always a bad thing but sometimes Wenger gives too much positional freedom to our players.

Freedom works great if you've got a team who works together, our team has very little synergy. Mert and Kos are the only ones with an identifiable partnership, the only ones who actually look like they try and work together.

jones

Freedom is perfect when you have highly intelligent, gifted and mature players. Wenger's man management is a double edged sword, players like Henry or RVP would probably never have gotten near their peaks under another manager but at the same time guys with little intelligence will look far worse than under managers who give them strict instructions.

Clrnc' pictures confirm the impression I had during the match. What on earth is wrong with Ramsey these last few weeks? I've been critical of certain aspects of his game for a good while even when he was scoring but this is unforgivable. Nevermind 13/14, this is worse than 12/13 Ramsey.

He has to ride the bench as soon as possible for a few games to get his head straight. He even gave an interview a year or so ago talking about Wenger telling him to focus on the basics, has he forgotten that already?

GaelForce

Clrnc wrote:
It's really hard to understand what our CMs are doing every game these days.

Clip 1: Flamini gets himself man marked so Gabriel has absolutely no one to pass to and passed back to Cech

Clip 2: Once again, Flamini is behind an opposition and Alexis have to come deep to provide a passing option.

In both instances, Flamini tries to be the deepest midfielder to receive the ball but is not in a good position to do so, which resulted in play going backwards or rushed to our forward. No surprises as well both times Ramsey is way ahead of the ball. Such nonsense can't continue surely. I refuse to believe Ramsey is that stupid anyway, might have something to do with Wenger's instructions.

I was there on Tuesday, it was absolutely horrendous. Flamini hid from the ball all game (you can see it in those screengrabs), while Ramsey played in attacking midfield. We had so much more of the ball than them, but so much of it was pointless as we couldn't do anything but hoof the ball forward to Giroud, or ask Sanchez/ Ozil/ Theo/ JC to collect impossible passes (to their credit, the first two did, on occasion). We created chances but it would have been so simple to create more if we just got the basics right, which we didn't, time and time again. There have been some brilliant performances this season and some terrible ones. At this point it's hard to tell if Wenger isn't properly motivating the squad for some games or if he's inadequately preparing them. Either way it's the same end result, and the squad and Wenger are letting each other down.

Gazza M

those screengrabs capture the banter perfectly. it's not isolated to that game either, that's been going on from the moment flamini and ramsey started playing together. we had the same problem against city, but kos made a point of driving with the ball into midfield, which mitigated our inability to build from the back.

dreamlord

Been saying it from day 1 since Ramsey moved into MF. That's why I prefer him on the right. And obviously Flamini is Flamini, nothing can be done about him.

Rex

Let's start by getting Ramsey a proper midfield partner in Coquelin and see if they can work it out. A proper manager giving real directions would make that pairing work both offensively and defensively, because they are both really good players, but if Wenger can do it is not as clear cut. Either way, getting Cazorla back in there is not a viable solution going forward.

speedy

Flamini doesn't have the technical quality to receive the ball under pressure or the strength to make up for it. I misswd this gane but it looks like his job was to bring wanyama? Wide to create space for the second player to drop into.

Ray

Ramsey should be coming into that huge pocket of space created to pick the ball up from the CB's.

mohan

We are not getting the basics right anymore.
No pattern or plan to our play. Its sad.

Timbob

i was also at the game on Tuesday and agree that Ramsey was utterly abysmal. Not a single redeeming feature in the whole 90 minutes. It's not even about him being caught ahead of the ball, he just completely vacates the centre of the pitch time and again. There are long stretches where he's on the left wing, at centre forward...we lose the ball and he's jogging back. I can't work out what's going on in his head.

Flamini's a blagger. All the pointing and occasional ridiculous two footed tackle etc are to hide the fact that games just pass him by. Looks relatively unfit to me and I think he doesn't want to get exposed, which is why he hides.

jones

Rex wrote:
Let's start by getting Ramsey a proper midfield partner in Coquelin and see if they can work it out. A proper manager giving real directions would make that pairing work both offensively and defensively, because they are both really good players, but if Wenger can do it is not as clear cut. Either way, getting Cazorla back in there is not a viable solution going forward.

So Flamini and Wenger are to blame for Ramsey's dreadful positioning and inconsistent first touch but Cazorla is not a viable solution full stop despite forming half of our strongest midfield for months. I understand everyone has his favourites but come on Rex, these days your posts don't seem to be fazed by any performance on the pitch.

goon

Ramsey's performances are really odd. A couple of seasons ago it would feel like Ramsey was doing the job of 3 players, now it feels like he's not even doing 1. I don't even think he's running any less than he used to, he's just not doing it intelligently.

Bold Tone

On this week's Tuesday Club podcast, they mentioned something about Ramsey and Flamini not talking to each other.
@TimGaelAwooga
Any evidence of this ?

MistaT

speedy wrote:
Flamini doesn't have the technical quality to receive the ball under pressure or the strength to make up for it. I misswd this gane but it looks like his job was to bring wanyama? Wide to create space for the second player to drop into.

Ramsey certainly isn't who I would want to drop in to receive a pass from our CBs when our FBs are pushed up and our DM is wide.

Rex

jones wrote:
Rex wrote:
Let's start by getting Ramsey a proper midfield partner in Coquelin and see if they can work it out. A proper manager giving real directions would make that pairing work both offensively and defensively, because they are both really good players, but if Wenger can do it is not as clear cut. Either way, getting Cazorla back in there is not a viable solution going forward.

So Flamini and Wenger are to blame for Ramsey's dreadful positioning and inconsistent first touch but Cazorla is not a viable solution full stop despite forming half of our strongest midfield for months. I understand everyone has his favourites but come on Rex, these days your posts don't seem to be fazed by any performance on the pitch.

I said Cazorla back in there is not a viable solution 'going forward'. By that I mean that he is 31 years old and coming off a major injury. To me, that's not the bloke you plan your central midfield around 'going forward'.

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