Players Out: Page 145 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Players Out

Anzac

Ray wrote:
Ramsey is decent but would he get into any of the top 4 sides? Maybe Liverpool possibly Spuds and even then it would be in rotation.

Juve have been smart, this deal includes a lot of bonuses based on how many games he plays...

Talk that Juve are interested in taking him in Jan.

If so they cannot do so without going through the normal transfer channels with the club, which means a transfer fee / player swap / Rambo buys out the remaining 6 months of his contract.
If they need to pay a fee or Rambo buys out his contract, then surely that would impact his wages and sign on fee as currently negotiated for the summer?

Klaus

Anzac wrote:
Klaus wrote:
I'm pretty sure those wages include a sign-on bonus. Rather than looking at it in those terms, though, people should consider how far ahead of the rest of the league Juventus are. Ronaldo, Higuain and Dybala are all Juve players, and they were all signed in the last three years. That's not a coincidence.

Serie A is a relatively poor league that exists in a country where the working class is struggling. Italy has over 11 percent unemployment currently. Poverty numbers are the worst they've been in decades. The match-day audience is failing everywhere, and so are the structures surrounding football such as television subscriptions and merchandising, etc. There's also no redistribution system, like in England, where all clubs get a more equal share of the tv money. There are only two clubs that can make massive deals as a consequence, Inter and Juve, and Inter are still struggling to impose themselves. Aside from AC Milan, Juve's wage bill is twice the size of any Italian club (https://www.calciomercato.it/news/315542/serie_a_classifica_stipendi_fuga_juventus_milan_e_inter_a_distanza).

People don't realise just how easy it is to lure good players from Italy. There is virtually no one who can match the wages that tin-pot clubs like West Ham and Southampton put on the table. Torreira probably earns twice as much right now as he would have if he'd gone to Napoli.

There's also a fair bit of underrating of Ramsey going on in this place. He's one of the best midfielders in Premier League and it'll be the same in Italy. People who don't think he's a good player have either bought into the current club politics or they have been taken in by the loud, scapegoating charlatans who know nothing about football.

I thought they had instigated this as pert of the progression to FFP, which was also part of the reason Juve built their new smaller capacity stadium so as to maximise attendances and in particular to increase their corporate revenues.

I'm actually unsure now that I think about it, but either way it's probably not the reason that Juve built a small stadium. They would never have been able to fill a bigger one. It's been that way for decades. They have far better away than home support.

Claudius

There were lots of articles about that stadium when it was built. Stadio delle Alpi Was old, far from fans, uncomfortable, and oversized. They desired something cozier (logic reminded me of when Pacers built this place), that was always packed. I remember when they opened it and it was packed. Was an incredible milestone for them on the path to becoming a much more modern operation. They achieved that English / German feel and were able to finally generate a healthy revenue.

Credit to Juve. It is not easy to lure players to Serie A. Players are only going there to fight for the Champions League, really. Other than 20 players, wages are low; blacks get abused, etc. So Juce does everything, whether it’s crazy transfer fees or the free agents to get talent in.

Qwiss

Claudius wrote:
On Ramsey - you rate him much more than the others. I think there is also a malaise vis-a-vis Wenger’s creatures which depresses their stock overall around here. Hence the lack of patience with guys like Bellerin and Iwobi who still have development runway but are treated like abject failures that need to be discarded. Baby’s bath water.

Absolutely. Iwobi is still 22 and is delivering as much as anyone else we play in the attacking midfield positions. I see a lot of people saying Bellerin needs replacing but where do you find a better right back who'll be happy to come here and play in the Europa? We'll be lucky to keep Bellerin TBH.

goon

You'd struggle to improve on him even if we were fighting for the league and CL. He's no Dani Alves but he has plenty going for him.

jones

Problem with him is you feel he could be doing a lot more. He was much more dynamic when he was just 20, but he's still one of our least worries

arsedocmd

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/09/aaron-ramsey-arsenal-juventus-five-year-deal-36m

Ramsey out in summer

Claudius

I wonder when Emery knew he wouldn’t want Ramsey, and of this could have been avoided. Hard to blame him for the incompetence of the Gazidis regime, but given what we’ve seen from Ramsey this year, a fistful of dollars last summer would’ve been much better.

Rohit

https://www.football365.com/news/emery-pinpoints-two-key-arsenal-stars-to-build-team-around

Reports like the one above were carried widely. Either the sources were wrong or Emery didn't like what he saw from Ramsey. I still think Ramsey has great quality despite his technical shortcomings and it is unlikely that Emery didn't want Ramsey.

speedy

Ramsey played like a complete prick for emery so it's no wonder it worked out the way it did. He's been through the awful times at arsenal and probably needs a fresh start. He will have got monster offers to stay and decided not to. He wanted to be bribed to stay getting way more than his worth but there's no real benefit of having a player like that in the team you know their form is gonna be awful.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Not to mention the numerous injuries.

Good luck to him, he's been useful this season and I hope he knuckles down and helps us with a strong second half of the season.

banduan

I'm just gutted. I knew it was coming but gutted regardless.

Only signing Isco would really make up for it.
Dennis Suarez? bah

Captain

What changed Emery's mind was that his superiors decided to prove a point by fucking off a club legend.

It has nothing to do with him turning up and realising that Ramsey wasn't the player he thought - he's not that shit of a manager.

Anzac

Captain wrote:
What changed Emery's mind was that his superiors decided to prove a point by fucking off a club legend.

It has nothing to do with him turning up and realising that Ramsey wasn't the player he thought - he's not that shit of a manager.

Rambo? Really? Wow.

EDIT - IMO it's more about trying to balance the books after the debacles seen under the previous regime.

HomeSteak

Mkhitaryan is being linked with a move to AC Milan as he is no longer seen as a certain starter. Mino Raiola (agent) has a good relationship with the Rossoneri. But, as the Armenian is one of the Gunners’ highest earners, finances could be an issue. [@CmdotCom_En]

(calcio mercator)

and from journalists in Armenia:

Hrach Khachatryan
There is also interest from Russia!
#Zenit are also interested in Henrikh #Mkhitaryan (SPB)
#Arsenal #AFC #Gunners

Quality player, not working out. This is a win/win for us and him. Serie a would be excellent for him

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

That guy is Mkhitaryan under a slightly different name. Try harder, Micky.

Captain

Anzac wrote:
Captain wrote:
What changed Emery's mind was that his superiors decided to prove a point by fucking off a club legend.

It has nothing to do with him turning up and realising that Ramsey wasn't the player he thought - he's not that shit of a manager.

Rambo? Really? Wow.

EDIT - IMO it's more about trying to balance the books after the debacles seen under the previous regime.

Yep - there are people with 100ft billboards outside the stadium who have contributed less than him.

Nothing wow about it.

goon

11 years, 350+ games, 60+ goals from midfield including two cup final winners. Qualifications certainly ain't bad.

I think the truth lies somewhere in between. They probably told Emery if we re-sign Aaron there won't be much wiggle room in the wage budget for new signings.

Coombs

I don't think they had much of a choice in the matter. Maybe blowing him away with a nonsense contract, but Ramsey never wanted to stay here his whole career. The way you guys talk like the club did this and Ramsey has no agency in the whole affair is odd.

Clrnc

Ornstein claimed it was Emery that decided Ramsey didn't fit into his profile as he doesn't play no. 8s.

Consistent with what Wheatley and the others were mentioning past few months.

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