Former Arsenal Players Thread: Page 131 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Former Arsenal Players Thread

daredevil

Odegaard's floor is higher than Ozil's, but there is absolutely no doubt that the latter at his peak was a much better player. Better dribbler, passer, attacking orchestrator, you name it. While, Odegaard scores more, has better work rate and pressing abilities.

Dom

daredevil

I agree mostly. If you factor in his performances and achievements for Bremen, Madrid and first couple of seasons at Arsenal (in particular the second season), he was clearly a better player, and by an appreciable distance. You mention Odegaard's floor is higher, but you're forgetting his floor from last season. Some of our no.8's performances were about as bad as it gets for an AM. If it was due to injury, it's not an excuse that can be made this season. I personally think he may be in trouble with Eze's arrival.

@Burnwinter stats on Odegaard's stats are illuminating though. I've recalibrated my stance to: "Odegaard was probably a better signing than Ozil". However, I will always blame Wenger for letting down the players during 2014-2016. He had Sanchez, Ozil, Cazorla, Ramsey, Koscielny and Monreal as an incredible spine and fucked it up by not replacing Coquelin and Mertesacker.

QuincyAbeyie

I don't think anyone's doubting Özil's peak, since his two main problems were the vast difference between his peak and his floor, and how often we saw the floor version.

daredevil

QuincyAbeyie

That's skewed by the fact that Ozil stayed with us through his decline. We didn't have the pleasure/displeasure of seeing Fabregas lose his legs/will at Arsenal and Odegaard is still young - but if things continue as they did last season, I'm sure the conversation will change regarding his legacy.

Let's not forget the fact that Ozil was integral to ending our trophy drought after 8 years and was the catalyst for the second phase of success under Wenger. Odegaard still has it all to prove if he can lead us to any success.

Burnwinter

daredevil Let's not forget the fact that Ozil was integral to ending our trophy drought after 8 years

Quoting from the Wikipedia entry on that Hull 3–2.

"Midway through the half, Podolski crossed for Özil, whose run had beaten Bruce, but he missed the ball altogether from close range. In the 25th minute, Özil's shot from the edge of the Hull penalty area was headed clear by Davies."

...

"Neither side made any substitutions during the interval and Arsenal kicked off the second half. Five minutes in, Özil ran onto a chipped pass forward and sent in a cross, but none of his teammates were in the penalty area."

...

"In the third of three minutes of stoppage time, Özil passed to Giroud, whose shot was saved by McGregor. The second half ended with the scores level at 2–2, sending the match into extra time."

...

"Arsenal dominated the early stages of extra time and had a 93rd-minute shot from Özil blocked by Chester, before Giroud's header struck the Hull crossbar."

Integral is a strong word for neither scoring nor assisting in a somewhat lucky victory over Hull ... mind you, he was very good for us back then, but let's not pretend he was always pulling up trees. That day belonged to Cazorla and Ramsey.

Lukazan

Qwiss Such an obviously dumb stupid way to compare players. Is Milan fucking Baros somewhere closer to Ronaldo's level because Baros won a CL and Ronaldo did not?

Mirth

This is such an asinine discussion. Arteta was willing to stake his early managerial career to get rid of Ozil. Talent is only half the discussion.

daredevil

Mirth
Yeah, a past his sell by date Ozil, and Arteta later did the same with Auba.

Mirth

daredevil you’re framing it in terms of talent. Ozil’s one of the most naturally talented players I’ve ever seen but, even at his peak, Wenger would have to make excuses for him and his imaginary back issues. I remember him explicitly needing some time off after we got hammered by Bayern Munich, for instances. It’s the same issue United have with Bruno Fernandes, he’s their most talented player but has more baggage than everyone else in their squad put together and a decade on they still don’t know whether he’s the problem or the solution.

daredevil

Burnwinter

I was talking about the entire season where he uplifted the team from one that was off the pace but comfortably top 4 to one that spent the longest time of any club in top position in 13/14 with it culminating in an FA Cup triumph. There were obviously other contributors but Ozil was huge in his first four seasons.

Looking at all competitions - not sure why people always feel the need to discount CL and FA Cup contributions.

Ozil
13-14 - 19 G/A
14-15 - 12 G/A (Spent most of the season injured with torn ligaments)
15-16 - 28 G/A
16-17 - 27 G/A
17-18 - 19 G/A
18-19 - 9 G/A
19-20 - 4 G/A

He was top class in his first 4 seasons and then started to tail off.

Odegaard's numbers in comparison in all competitions
20-21 - 4 G/A
21-22 - 12 G/A
22-23 - 22 G/A
23/24 - 23 G/A
24/25- 18 G/A

Burnwinter

daredevil There were obviously other contributors but Ozil was huge in his first four seasons.

We've had two 50 point half seasons to which Ødegaard has been central. We've got a very strong squad at this stage, but that feat was aeons away in Özil's era.

I'll say it again, it's nothing to do with hanging shit on Özil, but whether you look at these players' whole Arsenal histories or just their best periods, I'd select Ødegaard over Özil. The Norwegian will be a club legend if we do now win the league with him as captain ... as we've deserved to already in my view.

Qwiss

daredevil Looking at all competitions - not sure why people always feel the need to discount CL and FA Cup contributions.

Because you can have serious divergence in quality in those competitions. For instance Ozils probably most memorable moment for us was against a side from Bulgaria.

daredevil

Qwiss

Sure, but people want to win the CL and FA Cup, so divergence or not, contributions matter.

Meatwad

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Dom and that oaf Giroud. FFS.

Burnwinter

Dom However, I will always blame Wenger for letting down the players during 2014-2016. He had Sanchez, Ozil, Cazorla, Ramsey, Koscielny and Monreal as an incredible spine and fucked it up by not replacing Coquelin and Mertesacker.

100%. I'd already decided Wenger was wrecking the joint by January 2011 or so. 2017 when Leicester won the title was the culmination of that whole sequence. In retrospect KSE degraded Wenger by making him the keeper of a period of sustained systematic underdevelopment of Arsenal, to keep stocks low while they were getting rid of Usmanov. But Wenger was their willing accomplice.

JazzG

Still remember the excitement when we signed him, didn’t turn out as we hoped but he gave us some memorable moments. RIP

Gurgen

I loved that guy. A nice kid with too much Henry around him. RIP.

Big Willie

Gurgen A nice kid with too much Henry around him.

You can never have too much Henry. We need more Henry. All the Henry we can get. I dream of Henry.

Meatwad

well when you let your national team coach say racist shit and don't check him you deserve henry's bad side.
anyway he was too mentally weak. a litle kicking from the neville sisters and he went into a shell. and it's not like he was firing in spain after he left.

QuincyAbeyie

Man really felt like a remembrance post on Reyes's birthday is the right place and time to complain about his mentality as a football player

« Previous Page Next Page »