Francis Coquelin, one off or genuine midfield option for us this season?: Page 16 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Francis Coquelin, one off or genuine midfield option for us this season?

flobaba

I agree Vieira was a player like that, and we all know he was a once in a generation type player.

None of the players in your list come close to him in terms of How he dominated in that position, and that should tell you it's not as easy as you seem to think it is.

But we've had this discussion before about players and instincts/ skill sets and roles, so I'm not going to bother going into it again.

Bold Tone

I think he is saying the players mentioned have a wider range of skillset than your traditional dm. Some more than others making the pure destroyer role obsolete. As you say it has been mentioned and discussed previously when talking about the usefulness of players like Arteta over those like Flamini.

flobaba

I understand what he is saying. I have two issues with Coombs argument.

First of all, I think he is confusing players/positions. DM isn't the position Yaya, Vidal, Matuidi and Ramsey. They are box to box midfielders. Totally different positions.

Secondly It is definitely not as basic a position as Coombs believes, ie. I don't think "most professional footballers" have the skillset required to be successful in the role. You need a high level of defensive awareness and impeccable positioning and tackling ability to be successful in it. You absolutely cannot afford to lose the ball or be careless with possession in this position. Also, the first pass out is the most important pass a DM can make. A wrong choice and the options going forward are reduced drastically. Not every player has the vision, (yes vision) and decision making ability to make this first pass count.

The label "pure destroyer" is a misnomer for the DM role in my opinion. Only the most limited players interpret it as such.. Eg Wanyama.

Who would you say is an example of your "traditional DM"? In my opinion, The epitome of a DM was Claude Makalele, who for me was so much more than a pure destroyer, Indeed I believe he was one of the early deep(est) lying playmakers of the game, though very few recognized him as such possibly because he rarely ventured past the halfway line, wasn't an expansive or elaborate passer, and wasn't interested in goal scoring. However, his primary role, which he carried out perfectly was to prevent opponents from playing through the middle and serve as a platform to launch attacks. He was key to Real's success during the first galactico's era, and absolutely vital to Chelsea's development into a powerhouse in English football. Legendary footballer.

Traveling from box to box, beating your man one v one, goal scoring, that's linked to another position entirely IMO.

Even Vieira, great as he was needed more reserved players like Giberto to clean up behind him whenever he embarked on his forward runs. In other words, the defensive part of the game was a shared responsibility, with Gilberto enjoying a larger share of that responsiblity (which was quite suited to his skillset), and this complemented Vieira's game perfectly. Two players, two positions, two separate roles.

A single player can't have it all. I see Coquelin as more of a Gilberto Silva than a Vieira/Vidal...

Bold Tone

Good write up.
I used to watch the Marseille team that won the European Cup and remember Makelele as an excellent attacking midfielder for Nantes. Because he played that role for the galacticos, many assume he was a limited player which could not be further from the truth. Same goes for Edgar Davids who was a skillful winger before converting to tigerish cm.

JazzG

Wenger has confirmed Coquelin has signed a new deal, rumoured to be for 4 years. Good news, lets hope he keeps on improving and playing the way he is.

goon

Always thought he'd sign, but I'm glad he's not dragged it out. Could have probably easily made us sweat like Theo did to gain a few extra bob.

JazzG

Rumour has it he is on between £40k - £50k a week and if you look at his experience overall it isn't a bad deal for him. Realistically he might get a bit better but not going to get a lot more. I think he knows if he pushes on and improves even further we might not bring another DM in the summer. So has a real chance to secure his place in this team and if he does he'll get an improved contract sooner or later. As it stands I still think we need someone better but if he keeps on improving I might change my mind!

Am glad his deal and Akpom is done as well without too much fuss.

est

Great news.

Qwiss

Great stuff. Now to tie down players with less than 2 years on their deal.

Irishgunner

qs! wrote:
Great stuff. Now to tie down players with less than 2 years on their deal.

I hope Theo won't fuck us over.

Gazza M

cant see theo doing that. arsenal is as good as it going to get for him.

Meatwad

there should be team options on their contracts if they miss a year or more. sign a 4 year deal and only play 3, the team has the option to extend your deal by a year under the same terms.

lorddulaarsenal

Just rewatched highlights of his recent games. The lad can really play. Good agility and beat passing to go along with that tenacity and controlled tackling.

Can see him being top class in a few years

Jed

Irish gunner wrote:
qs! wrote:
Great stuff. Now to tie down players with less than 2 years on their deal.

I hope Theo won't fuck us over.

It's ok. Reus is available.

Anzac

flobaba wrote:
I understand what he is saying. I have two issues with Coombs argument.

First of all, I think he is confusing players/positions. DM isn't the position Yaya, Vidal, Matuidi and Ramsey. They are box to box midfielders. Totally different positions.

Secondly It is definitely not as basic a position as Coombs believes, ie. I don't think "most professional footballers" have the skillset required to be successful in the role. You need a high level of defensive awareness and impeccable positioning and tackling ability to be successful in it. You absolutely cannot afford to lose the ball or be careless with possession in this position. Also, the first pass out is the most important pass a DM can make. A wrong choice and the options going forward are reduced drastically. Not every player has the vision, (yes vision) and decision making ability to make this first pass count.

The label "pure destroyer" is a misnomer for the DM role in my opinion. Only the most limited players interpret it as such.. Eg Wanyama.

Who would you say is an example of your "traditional DM"? In my opinion, The epitome of a DM was Claude Makalele, who for me was so much more than a pure destroyer, Indeed I believe he was one of the early deep(est) lying playmakers of the game, though very few recognized him as such possibly because he rarely ventured past the halfway line, wasn't an expansive or elaborate passer, and wasn't interested in goal scoring. However, his primary role, which he carried out perfectly was to prevent opponents from playing through the middle and serve as a platform to launch attacks. He was key to Real's success during the first galactico's era, and absolutely vital to Chelsea's development into a powerhouse in English football. Legendary footballer.

Traveling from box to box, beating your man one v one, goal scoring, that's linked to another position entirely IMO.

Even Vieira, great as he was needed more reserved players like Giberto to clean up behind him whenever he embarked on his forward runs. In other words, the defensive part of the game was a shared responsibility, with Gilberto enjoying a larger share of that responsiblity (which was quite suited to his skillset), and this complemented Vieira's game perfectly. Two players, two positions, two separate roles.

A single player can't have it all. I see Coquelin as more of a Gilberto Silva than a Vieira/Vidal...

This.
I want a Bert or Petit rather than a playmaker type.
IMO in this new version of the 4141 a DLP is redundant because the ball player playmaker is operating from the CM line and not the AM line.
If Coquelin was taller I'd be happier, but Makalele himself was only 170cm.

HomeSteak

From Squawka Football.

Francis Coquelin has won the most tackles (20) in the Premier League in 2015.

No player in Europe's top 5 leagues has made more interceptions in 2015 than Francis Coquelin (26).

Rex

#Beast

Gazza M

our midfield leaves him with plenty of clean up work to do, but he sure gets to it

marv3llous

If only this would continue and it wouldnt be just a purple patch. Still afraid it is and still afraid we will revert back to Arteta-Ramsey midfield base as soon as they are available again.

Anzac

marv3llous wrote:
If only this would continue and it wouldnt be just a purple patch. Still afraid it is and still afraid we will revert back to Arteta-Ramsey midfield base as soon as they are available again.

TBH I'd be curious to see Arteta replace Rambo or Cazorla & see if he'd look to open up his passing range.
I actually think Arteta would have done better at CM in the NLD than either Cazorla or Rambo did.
Likewise I think a midfield trio of Coquelin-Arteta-Ozil could work, as could Coquelin-Arteta-Ox.

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