Ramsey back to superhero mode: Page 21 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Ramsey back to superhero mode

Clrnc

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Ramsey didn't make me look silly. He was utter bilge the season before last and most people could see that.

I'm basically calling it as I see it

I don't get why people can't see this. Why can't someone rate him but feels he has had poor games?

goon

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
He was great, but to me he's become all Hollywood and complacent.

What utter tripe.

ultimatewarrior

Kel Varnsen wrote:
Modric is fantastic... or the entire Bayern side. Their performance against City was truly brilliant. Compare that to us and you realize how far behind we've fallen. Stoke are probably closer to the quality of our passing game than we are to Bayern's.

Yup, we are so far off the top.

Between 2001 and 2011, we had enough quality to beat anyone on their day.

From 2011 to current, we have dropped even further back. We now are able to buy genuine quality players, but we've collected and promoted a lot of dross to go with it.

Since we lost Fabregas, our technical and creative quality has nosedived. We have been playing the most drabbest football ever witnessed under Wenger, and our successes have all come from defending resolutely and punting balls to Giroud.

Our games are not even entertaining anymore. You can count on one hand, the number of times we've scored more than 3 goals in a game in the last 3/4 years.

Yet, we are apparently only a DM and CB from challenging?

yuv

True about our current quality, but a bit harsh considering Ozil, Theo, Wilshere, Debuchy. Get this lot playing together for a while
keeper
Debuchy Per Kos Gibbs
Jack Ramsey
Ozil
Ox Giroud Sanchez

you still have Santi, Theo, Welbeck, Art and Chambers on the bench.

If this team gets a solid run of games, the feeling of "those were the days we still had quality" would be a bit exaggerated.

banduan

Clrnc wrote:
@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Ramsey didn't make me look silly. He was utter bilge the season before last and most people could see that.

I'm basically calling it as I see it

I don't get why people can't see this. Why can't someone rate him but feels he has had poor games?

because the thread referred to says Ramsey is a dud. Which means a lot more than 'he has had poor games'.

Klaus

It's all very silly anyway. He's had plenty of poor games, just like everyone else, and he'll have plenty more in the future too. That's never been what this is about. Some never rated Ramsey much while others did, that's the long and short of it. People are entitled to their opinion as long as they state their reason for having it. Those who never rated Ramsey as a player were mainly impressed by all the additional stuff he did last season, such as scoring 20 goals. Those who rated him before that saw him add traits to an already impressive makeup.

Goals and tackles don't happen in isolation though. They're always the product of the team. We've changed both our offensive and defensive makeup this season, and as a result we're getting less out of plenty of players - Ramsey included. He's still the same player to me. He still puts in a bigger shift than anyone else out there. That 80 yard run he made to put in a recovery tackle against a counterattacking Southampton would have been lauded last season. I saw no one even mention it in the match thread. Against West Bromwich he literally saved us two points in extra time by putting a toenail between the ball and the goal. People are so eager to discuss what he's lost since last season, but no one seems to focus on what he actually does instead.

I don't understand it, but there you go. We value different things in footballers, it's that simple. I'm one hundred percent behind Wenger when it comes to guys like Ramsey and Özil though. I'm genuinely puzzled over how people can miss what they contribute with on the pitch when they aren't scoring or assisting.

ultimatewarrior

yuv wrote:
True about our current quality, but a bit harsh considering Ozil, Theo, Wilshere, Debuchy. Get this lot playing together for a while
keeper
Debuchy Per Kos Gibbs
Jack Ramsey
Ozil
Ox Giroud Sanchez

you still have Santi, Theo, Welbeck, Art and Chambers on the bench.

If this team gets a solid run of games, the feeling of "those were the days we still had quality" would be a bit exaggerated.

Being fit and available is part of being a top player and team.

When Henry was asked what is the toughest part of being a footballer, he said staying fit.

The great players and teams are great firstly because they are sublime at playing football, and secondly its because they almost always play. The axis of Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta must have played in over 200 games together as midfield. Of course, an injury or two would have derailed them and Barcelona, but they persevered through many campaigns.

We would certainly be better if we could field our first XI on a weekly basis, that is undeniable, but we can't and that detracts from their ability as players, and us as a team.

yuv

You don't have Ozil, Jack, Theo, Art and Debuchy, and till very recently you didn't have Kos and Giroud.
We've actually been winning since we have them back.

But remember the context was your ridiculing the claim that "CB and DM and we're close" or something of that sort.
Look at the above and think: is it really? let all those who we actually do have play a bit together and then throw in a top DM and CB -
would we not be a hell of a lot better (or at least: would it really be ridiculous to think that?)

Being fit is a part of being a top player? hmmm. RVP was 85 years in the Diaby institute, then he all of the sudden became healthy.
Which stance does such a case support? he was simply not a top player before? or was he just injured? was Ozil a perennial croc (or was
he in fact considered one of the best players in the world?).

It's nice to paint stuff simple, but at times you need to take a more balanced look at things. Not all you say I disagree with, it just needs a bit of balance.

ultimatewarrior

We will win more games if they are all healthy, but they aren't, and rarely ever are together. That's a problem we most likely will never solve, until we fall upon a group of 11 players who are simply durable. Besides, they haven't been great when they have played together. It's not like the 'famous' Theo van Nasregas team which obliterated several clubs over a period in which they finally started. Even when they all played during last season, we were only ever good defensively.

RVP was NOT a top player, until he remained fit and scored over 60 goals in two seasons.

Ozil was a top player, but he's been suffering injuries at our club at inopportune times. Much like many of our other crocks of the past, Walcott, van Persie, Rosicky etc. Playing well for the most part, but disappearing when shit hits the fan. I've got no time for players like that.

innervisionscm

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
Those who never rated Ramsey as a player were mainly impressed by all the additional stuff he did last season, such as scoring 20 goals. Those who rated him before that saw him add traits to an already impressive makeup.

It really isn't that. There's people who are more extreme when it comes to rating players, but there also those who call it as they see it. Most people do not have "favourites" or players they hate and are just supporting Arsenal. Lukazan made a perfect point about this.

Most people ain't dumb. It's pretty obvious when he has had a bad game. There is no need to talk about 80 yard lungs bursting run when he can't do most of the basics right this season. For what it's worth, he had a pretty decent game against West Brom and I am not talking about that in particular. He does always put in a shift but if that's what you only want from him then fair enough. We have seen what he can do last season and obviously people will compare it with what he can do and what he isn't doing this season. It's not only about goals.

lorddulaarsenal

That isn't a comprehensive match comp. it doesn't include that switch pass he made where it went sailing over the recipients head

ultimatewarrior

I think he will get back to his best for next season.

yuv

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
That isn't a comprehensive match comp. it doesn't include that switch pass he made where it went sailing over the recipients head

Yeah, I remember that one. But I think this actually does give a good sense of what his game was like - not brilliant, full of little errors, but also a lot of positives. Which unfortunately you can't see. 🙂

lorddulaarsenal

I can see the good bits he does. I just think we are paying too big a price for them. We need a player who can do the good bits without being so rash.

We have too many rash players and that's the main reason we get shown up at the very top

yuv

Plenty of reasons why we are not at the top - Rmasey last year was one of the main reasons we were at the top. Past lessons say patience in his case is not mere wishful thinking - that catterpilar has big, colorful butterfly wings in there. #dudtodude. 8)

y va marquer

😆
You're trying so hard to convince yuv.

I think Ramsey's errors, even if limited to a few per game, are always going to be of the kind that drive people mad

yuv

y va marquer wrote:
😆
You're trying so hard to convince yuv.

My stats the last hours are like Ramsey's at the end of a game. 🙂

y va marquer

🙂
It's a tough station yuv

Qwiss

Another step on the comeback today with his goal.

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