Burnwinter™ wrote:

kamikaze wrote:

united will definitely finish in the top 4 next season.

No mate, it's definitely not definite. I've heard so much definitely this and that about United in the past twelve months and it's all been wrong.

You'd expect them to improve under Van Gaal but they'll still have a tough job and strong competition.

All year. "You can't count United out of the title race" then "they'll finish near the top", "they'll definitely get a CL spot" "at least a Uefa spot". People seem to be missing just how far United fell.

Indeed. The media were suspiciously quiet about it too. If the same had happened at Arsenal there would have been a steady drumbeat of nauseating sensationalist coverage. But I guess they have that cachet after being the most successful club in England for 20 years.

qs! wrote:

All year. "You can't count United out of the title race" then "they'll finish near the top", "they'll definitely get a CL spot" "at least a Uefa spot". People seem to be missing just how far United fell.

I gotta say, I didn't think they'd come back to top four by about December, and I'm fairly sure that's what I was saying back then. But I know a ton of posters on here were nodding sagely about a guaranteed comeback in January.

I don't expect them to challenge for the title next season by any stretch. It's very unusual for sides to finish out of Europe and come back to genuinely tilt at top spot. Liverpool this year were the first rank outsiders to get close in ages. United may get top four, but they'll have to dislodge some good, settled clubs to do so.

Man U still has a lot of really good players; they just collectively played less and less for their manager throughout the season. I expect them to throw some serious money at the problem this summer, and then it is all about how soon van Gaal can make them play like a team. I certainly expect them to get top 4 next season.

In whose expense?

Liverpool's.

Yup..

One of them will finish 3rd and one 5th. If I had to put money on it though I'd say Pool ahead of United. I think Uniteds problems run deep and throwing £100m at a team is harder than it seems when you've no real identity or plan. Just ask Spurs

Van Gaal has a very clear football philosophy though. With the players he already has at Man U, all that money means he can go out and buy the pieces he feels are missing. My biggest hope here is that being Holland manager means he hasn't had enough time to properly assess the squad yet, and that there won't be enough time left after the WC to get it all done.

I think Van Gaal will easily finish in the top 4, if we are not careful we might miss out but I prefer to think it will be Liverpool

qs! wrote:

One of them will finish 3rd and one 5th. If I had to put money on it though I'd say Pool ahead of United. I think Uniteds problems run deep and throwing £100m at a team is harder than it seems when you've no real identity or plan. Just ask Spurs

I think we underestimate how big a club Utd is and how much pulling lower they still have. They will finish top 4 next season IMO.. Liverpool will be the ones to miss out for sure.

I agree they still have loads of pull but they need a lot of fixing in that squad. £100m over the summer would have to be perfectly spent to really turn them around. I think they're more likely to have to build over the next couple of seasons.

I really don't think they have that much to do. They have quality in attack, which is always a good start. I'd say two quality central midfielders, a left back and a CB is enough to get them to seriously compete. A proper manager like van Gaal can get this unit to work I reckon:

-----------RvP
Rooney--Mata--Januzaj

With Welbeck, Young, Valencia as back up. Lots of quality there.

Rooney will never play there though, so the Mata/Rooney/van Persie problem is still one that needs solving. Januzaj is 19 and very inconsistent - shouldn't be anywhere near starting for a top team.

Rooney will play where van Gaal tells him to play, or not play at all. If there is one thing I am certain of, it is that van Gaal is never going to let players dictate those sort of things.

Even if Januzaj goes through a bad patch, they still have quality in that front line. I could well also see van Gaal wanting to keep Kagawa. It is criminal how mismanaged that great little player has been at Man U up to now.

Rooneys just signed a £300k a week contract. He's going to be a nightmare if he doesn't get his way.

And Uniteds defence and midfield is a complete mess. Even numbers wise their defence is fucked at the moment with Vidic, Evra and Rio all gone. Their midfield is made up of Carrick, Fellaini and Cleverly. Carrick is past it, Fellaini is a clumsy oaf and Cleverly is a midtable player.

The attack you posted is decent until RVP gets injured, Rooney takes a strop or Januzaj hits a bit of bad form. Wellbeck is decent back up but Young is terrible and Valencia average.

Its a poor squad with a couple of big name players.

If I know anything about van Gaal, then he certainly won't give a damn about Rooney's contract situation; van Gaal has never been afraid like that, and he is one stubborn dude. You can bet your house that Rooney will either play where van Gaal wants him to, or not at all. Either way, I'd say a proper manager can create a good front line with RvP, Rooney, Januzaj, Kagawa, Mata, Young, Nani, Welbeck, Valencia and Hernandez.

Not that he is any good, but Evra has signed a one year extension. Means they have one less position to worry about, and Rafael is a good player on the other flank. As for Carrick and Fellatio, I don't think they are one bit worse than Arteta and Flamini. In a proper midfield they certainly have a role to play, but I reckon Man U needs two class midfielders. In Jones, Smalling and Evans I think Man U has 3 competent CBs, but they need a top class one to really run that defense.

All in all, I'd say Man U needs 2 CMs and a CB as a minimum. The right players there and I think that may be enough to be right up there with the squad they have. If you add a Luke Shaw to that, then things get really interesting IMO. As a bare minimum, that doesn't look insurmountable in one summer. In fact, I think we have just as much to get done this summer.

Mata is an average wide player though IG. He thrives at number 10 but move him out of there and you lose a lot. More importantly I think he's a better number 10 than Rooney in most modern systems.

I don't think United have any hope of being "golden" next season. They have far too many poor to average players and they'll struggle for a top 4 spot.