The Wenger Thread!: Page 24 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Wenger Thread!

Timbob

Rex wrote:
Bayern against us was a knock out tie. We knew full well going into this game what being second in the group would mean. Big difference.

Yeah, it means we've qualified.

Rex

You are a real Einstein, aren't you?

Timbob

Stop whinging Rex and get some sleep.

We'll beat City on Saturday and you'll be all like, "give Wenger a new contract, i love him, he's amazing, i want to have sex with him etc, etc".

Rex

Middle finger for you, Tim!

Xcdude24

I don't really care about today's result. Its weird how much people are complaining, especially given the pre-match consensus was more or less "result doesn't matter as long as we qualify." I doubt anyone on here would be upset if they were told in august that we'd finish second in this group.

Am I the only person who finds the CL a bit superfluous?

Burnwinter

"Superfluous" isn't the right word XC, but I agree it's hard to get excited at this point. We qualified: good.

We're a bloody long way from the pinnacle with a huge mountain to climb, and first or second in the group is really only an easier or harder ride to base camp.

Proud of our qualification from a tough group. Our European record is impressively consistent, even if it's not glorious.

The negative reaction to the loss is probably more to do with anxiety about the wheels falling off our whole season.

After all we could definitely lose the next two league matches, drop a few more points and then lose to Spurs in the FA Cup and we'd be jostling for fourth just like any other season. I fear that.

Biggus

Rex wrote:
Middle finger for you, Tim!

Stop being the kid in the Diego Costa video Rex.

Biggus

Timothy wrote:
How many times have you seen top teams come in to games like tonight and get caught between doing just enough to go through and playing positively? Bayern against us last season? Milan the year before? It happens all the time because its tricky to get the mentality right.

Totally agree Tim, but the mentality comes from above- If Wenger plays his strongest on form team and that means Ramsey and Wilshere instead of Cazorla and Rosicky and tell em to attack we would have scored.
Instead he tries to be too clever and his arse falls between two chairs.

Yes we have improved much defensively this season but we're still not a team set up to secure a draw.

We are still set up to outscore the opposition, and thats why Wenger never has nor ever will win the CL.

Biggus

Burnwinter wrote:
Our European record is impressively consistent, even if it's not glorious.

Our European record under Wenger is mediocre.

Burnwinter

You know exactly what I mean by "impressively consistent". We've gotten out of the group stage for 14 consecutive seasons.

I don't think the phrase used categorically oversteps empirically observable reality, so I feel I can safely pass over any "debate" on the subject ...

Biggus

Burnwinter wrote:
We've gotten out of the group stage for 14 consecutive seasons.

Biggus

If we go into the FA cup tie with this attitude we'll lose.

Burnwinter

It's not "our" attitude Biggus.

And what you're whingeing about is nothing more than the usual pissing contest about your rhetoric vs mine.

This idea that we have a losing mentality, where does it even come from? We're five points clear in the league having been written off by every pundit and you say we have a losing mentality? Shouldn't you wait until we, you know, start losing a few more things?

y va marquer

Is it likely that we'll play at home to Spurs in a cup tie in the exact same way as we did away in Europe to Napoli in a game that we needed to avoid losing by three goals?
I don't think so.

Biggus

Hey I'm not criticising anything you said Burnsy, on the contrary I'm sure you'd agree with me that that one win does not mean we're the best team in the world nor does one loss mean we're the worst I'm arguing against stupid kneejerking and I'm arguing against tinkering and fucking around too much with our best (we all know what it is) team.

I'm not saying we suddenly have a loser mentality I'm saying that it's up to Wenger in his team talks and team selection to make it clear that there are no easy games no rests no strolls you play at your best till you drop then someone else takes over till they drop this is the way to victory.

y va marquer

Except Wenger didn't tinker too much with the team last night so that disproves your point.
He tinkered with it more for the Hull game which we ended up winning.
Last night's game, whether you like it or not, was not a "win at all costs game".

Biggus

Every game is a win at all costs game, if you don't understand that well theres not much more to discuss, we'll just have to agree that we see the game differently.

y va marquer

I understand very well the whole concept of a game of football Biggus 🙂
You're right though, in relation to last night's game there's nothing further to discuss with you.

Rex

See Y, what you are saying there is exactly the problem; go into the game to avoid losing by three. That looked to be the mindset of the team, and that is what irks me. The manager's responsibility is to get his team prepared to go into the game with the clear mindset of doing their damned best to win the game! If you lose the game despite that - ok, but the mentality was right. Losing with a limp performance like this is NOT ok!

You could see after 5 minutes that the approach was wrong. Why didn't the manager get the message across that it wasn't good enough what they were doing out there? Why the negative subs in the game if we desperately wanted to get a point and be the masters of our own fate?

y va marquer

I get very well the points both yourself and Biggus are making.
What I don't get is why such a massive big deal is being made over the result.
I was more worried by our performance against Everton.
I said afterwards that if we played like that against City and Chelsea I worried about the results.
I've thought since the start of the season that how we do will ultimately depend on how strong our midfield (central and attacking) remain.
For me in the last couple of games the level has slipped enough for it to affect our results negatively.
I also think being without Sagna on the right wing has caused us issues as well.

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