The Wenger Thread!: Page 21 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Wenger Thread!

Klaus

lagos wrote:
you know what I'm talking about

they are 2nd because others are underperforming

This has zero relevance for Arsenal.

I didn't say that the other teams aren't underperforming (though United are the only ones who have failed to match their curve from last season). I said that Arsenal would be top of the table even if they weren't. City and Chelsea have never picked up this many points after 15 games. United have done it twice in two decades.

Burnwinter

I'd rather dole out the credit when we win the league—but if we do, the players themselves will deserve a huge share of it.

Klaus

lagos wrote:
Klaus wrote:
This has zero relevance for Arsenal.

I didn't say that the other teams aren't underperforming. I said that Arsenal would be top of the table even if they weren't. City and Chelsea have never picked up this many points after 15 games. United have done it twice in two decades.

and there you are wrong, United have beaten us in the head to head so theoretically if they weren't underperforming they would be ahead of us.

That makes no sense.

Klaus

Seriously, go back and read through the post more carefully. You're still banging on about how other teams perform. I'm talking about how we have performed. If you can't see the difference then that's your problem and not mine. We have more points this year than United had at the same time last year, and that's despite losing to both them and Aston Villa so far. There's literally nothing that suggests they would be topping the league right now if they hadn't been underperforming.

Klaus

lagos wrote:
You keep contradicting yourself. you unwittingly accept they are underperforming yet you say where we are has nothing to do with it.

There's no contradiction because they're not mutually exclusive. 😆

Anyhow, this is pointless. You're clearly not getting it.

Burnwinter

The other top sides may not be underperforming, but they're certainly dropping a few points unexpectedly at the moment.

Whatever the case there, it feels like the stars are aligning for us somewhat at the moment. But I don't really care about the division of the credit until there's something to be divided. All I know is there's a good feeling coming out of the group of players at the moment. I haven't heard a single negative remark in ages.

You couldn't really give Wenger all the credit for that, because it certainly hasn't been the case in the past, and it's not something he can totally control.

I'm loving what dark horses we've been this season. We were writing ourselves off right up until Özil was signed. Every week another pundit stops writing us off and grudgingly admits we're in with a huge chance. Every week one of our players pops up with an amazing and unexpected piece of skill or commitment.

Armor

Timothy wrote:
Chelsea are actually performing slightly better this season than they have for a while.

A lot of people got swept away with the Mourinho hype when he returned but lets not forget Chelsea have been at Arsenal and Spurs level for the last 2 seasons. I found it very strange that they were the favorites this season.

GaelForce

lagos wrote:
No you go back and read what I said in my 1st post. You keep contradicting yourself. you unwittingly accept they are underperforming yet you say where we are has nothing to do with it. I have never said we don't deserve credit for where we are I said it's a combination but if you want to keep on arguing find someone else to argue with.

He's saying that you're not making sense. It doesn't matter that United have been worse than people would expect them to - you could say that Villa would be top if they'd won six more games... Our start to the season has been that good that we'd be at the top however well the other teams have been.

Looking quickly, with the same points we'd be top of the table at this stage in 8 of the 10 seasons. Didn't even expect it to be that high!

GaelForce

No-one expects any team to win all their games though, that just doesn't happen. You're saying that if United had had the best/ joint best start to a Premier League season they'd be ahead of us. Well yeah, and so what? If City had won all of the games that people had expected them to last season than they would have finished 1st - that doesn't mean United were lucky or fortunate in any way to win the title.

goon

lagos wrote:
ht' stupid onlusion because if Manu won the games they are expected to win and add to the fact that they beat us in the head to head they would be higher than us in the table,, do you guys not know how to add?

Impossible to make that comparison, this is as good a start any team has made in the Premier League. If we win today we have a point more than United has last season at this stage, and they ended up with 89 points.

Point is, we're top because of the way we've performed, not down to anyone else.

If you wanted to say we're potentially 7 points clear because of a combination of our performance and the under performance of others, then I don't think anyone would argue with you.

goon

😆

You didn't specify the gap, I think everyone assumed you're saying we'd not be top if it wasn't for others under performing.

Biggus

Burnwinter wrote:
The other top sides may not be underperforming, but they're certainly dropping a few points unexpectedly at the moment.

Whatever the case there, it feels like the stars are aligning for us somewhat at the moment. But I don't really care about the division of the credit until there's something to be divided. All I know is there's a good feeling coming out of the group of players at the moment. I haven't heard a single negative remark in ages.

You couldn't really give Wenger all the credit for that, because it certainly hasn't been the case in the past, and it's not something he can totally control.

I'm loving what dark horses we've been this season. We were writing ourselves off right up until Özil was signed. Every week another pundit stops writing us off and grudgingly admits we're in with a huge chance. Every week one of our players pops up with an amazing and unexpected piece of skill or commitment.

What no one seems to have mentioned so far is that there is a lot of hype around that Wenger "has loosened the purse strings" just because he's smashed our transfer record, this is misleading-He's been spending about the same for a few years now only spread over more players.
Added to that a lot of deadwood has been shifted off the wages bill so there was more money to spend last summer but yet he didn't splash out with three major signings two who were free, no, the major difference that he's got it right on the transfer front two seasons in a row now and we can all see it's going well.
Just as He was rightly criticised for buying bad players and not retaining good ones he should be creditted with assembling the right players.
As you say- Without taking anything away from Wenger and the team -The stars have aligned, and we know in football like comedy timing is everything.
Like in 03 and 08 it certainly is ours to lose we must grab this chance.

y va marquer

Biggus wasn't responding to my post lagos
😆

y va marquer

So why are you quoting my opening statement then?

JazzG

Biggus wrote:
No, we've been hearing that for years- Now is the time for him to produce.
If he can't land silverware after he's finally decided to spend the money and with all our major rivals weakened he doesn't deserve any more chances.
This is a very good side he's assembled the best in 7 years, it would be a disgrace if we failed again and unforgivable.

He deserves another season to finish the job off, this season Ozil needs to gel further with his team mates and hopefully during January/summer add more reinforcements. Can't go from a team who scraped 4th place and with a couple signings be demanding he win the title.

Not hard to see that despite people like your good self and others writing him off and saying he couldn't do it again he has rebuilt the squad again and made us competitive. The job isn't done yet though.

Rex

This is such a meaningless debate. We all know Wenger will sign a new contract, and we have known all along. He will be here as long as his health permits it.

Biggus

Of course Rex, but we can still express an opinion.

JazzG wrote:
Can't go from a team who scraped 4th place and with a couple signings be demanding he win the title.

I demand that we win the title every year.
Because Wenger has had total control of the football side of the club since Dein left he must bear total responsibility there should be no such thing as transition he doesn't need to adapt anything he's had 18 years to mould the club however he wants.

Rex

Opinions have been well and truly expressed.

Biggus

Indeed, and all reasonable people are neither praising or criticising him until the season is over.
But Some still feel the need to gratuitously raise the topic now and then.

Burnwinter

JazzG wrote:
Biggus wrote:
No, we've been hearing that for years- Now is the time for him to produce.
If he can't land silverware after he's finally decided to spend the money and with all our major rivals weakened he doesn't deserve any more chances.
This is a very good side he's assembled the best in 7 years, it would be a disgrace if we failed again and unforgivable.

He deserves another season to finish the job off, this season Ozil needs to gel further with his team mates and hopefully during January/summer add more reinforcements. Can't go from a team who scraped 4th place and with a couple signings be demanding he win the title.

Not hard to see that despite people like your good self and others writing him off and saying he couldn't do it again he has rebuilt the squad again and made us competitive. The job isn't done yet though.

I lean more towards Biggus's viewpoint. Contrary to all this nonsense about Özil needing more time to gel, Jazz, Özil has already gelled and we're five points clear approaching Christmas.

For many reasons, some predictable last season (stronger defence), some not (Ramsey in insane form), things are coming together for this group of players. This is the time. We're having a brilliant start to the season. It's very unlikely we'll have a better chance next time than we do right now.

Wenger's continued tenure is a non-issue. As Rex said it's a given he'll sign a new contract. I'd be against the club making a new contract contingent on success, because I believe it would disrupt the squad.

But we've got to go for the jugular this season, and if we don't, I will judge Wenger for that.

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