Are we naive vs the better teams?: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Are we naive vs the better teams?

Gazza M

we need to build a far more dangerous attacking unit so teams think twice about pressing us. thats been our biggest issue, no threat of penetration whatsoever. until we become a legit counterattacking threat, we'll keep getting rolled in this base and shabby manner

Qwiss

Gazza M wrote:
we need to build a far more dangerous attacking unit so teams think twice about pressing us. thats been our biggest issue, no threat of penetration whatsoever. until we become a legit counterattacking threat, we'll keep getting rolled in this base and shabby manner

Yep. Its all part of the pace and power that always dominates the PL. We have neither.

Kel Varnsen

There are plenty of things this team needs, but three key areas for me are:

-striker. This has been beaten to death, but we have no pace and penetration up front. It's killing us.

-central midfield. We desperately need physical strength, pace and passing ability in central midfield. To protect space in front of the back four and to keep possession even when put under pressure.

-better full back. They are not good enough on the ball and it slows down our passing game, which allows the other team to dispossess us.

MistaT

otfgoon wrote:
True, in his mind he probably wanted a performance similar to Liverpool. But you have to question how much caution he drove into the players when there are 7 men ahead of the ball in the centre circle. It's certainly not cautious.

Preaching caution to Ox and Cazorlaand expecting them to adhere is a far bigger ask/risk than playing naturally 'cautious' players like Flamini/Arteta and even Rosicky.

Qwiss

Kel Varnsen wrote:
There are plenty of things this team needs, but three key areas for me are:

-striker. This has been beaten to death, but we have no pace and penetration up front. It's killing us.

-central midfield. We desperately need physical strength, pace and passing ability in central midfield. To protect space in front of the back four and to keep possession even when put under pressure.

-better full back. They are not good enough on the ball and it slows down our passing game, which allows the other team to dispossess us.

I pretty much agree with that. And on the last point its why I don't care if Sagna leaves. He's solid but not spectacular. We need at least one full back who can really add something to the attack.

goon

In the end of the day Wenger is an attacking manager, our attack has been shit so it's never going to suit him to be pragmatic. Same with Pellegrini.

He needs to build an attacking force. We need to be one of those sides scoring 100 goals a season. Fuck this solidarity bull shit.

innervisionscm

We also completely lack the ball retention ability against sides at our level that lets teams like Barcelona play with high fullbacks. If you can't keep the ball, and you don't have the attacking presence to make teams pay if they press too hard, then you need to change the game plan. Wenger is such a good manager in so many ways I just don't get how he doesn't see this.

goon

MistaT wrote:
otfgoon wrote:
True, in his mind he probably wanted a performance similar to Liverpool. But you have to question how much caution he drove into the players when there are 7 men ahead of the ball in the centre circle. It's certainly not cautious.

Preaching caution to Ox and Cazorlaand expecting them to adhere is a far bigger ask/risk than playing naturally 'cautious' players like Flamini/Arteta and even Rosicky.

Yep, it's a contradiction. It's why these games end up a mess. In fact , kel is porobably right, I actually wouldn't be surprised if he gave the exact same team talk as last week.

Kel Varnsen

qs! wrote:
Kel Varnsen wrote:
There are plenty of things this team needs, but three key areas for me are:

-striker. This has been beaten to death, but we have no pace and penetration up front. It's killing us.

-central midfield. We desperately need physical strength, pace and passing ability in central midfield. To protect space in front of the back four and to keep possession even when put under pressure.

-better full back. They are not good enough on the ball and it slows down our passing game, which allows the other team to dispossess us.

I pretty much agree with that. And on the last point its why I don't care if Sagna leaves. He's solid but not spectacular. We need at least one full back who can really add something to the attack.

If Sagna leaves, I want a top class right back brought in. If Sagna stays, I want Monreal gone and someone like Shaw brought in. We need at least one full back who can add to our attack.

JazzG

Kel Varnsen wrote:
Are we sure that's what he wanted? Before the match, he said he wanted us to "have a go, but not expose ourself". Yet, that is exactly what happened. It is reasonable to assume the players aren't doing exactly what they're told to do either...

Exactly, he knew exactly how Chelsea would play against us but the players fucked up so badly it was untrue. When pressed we couldn't hold onto the ball and kept misplacing simple passes. I don't think it was even a case of our tactics today but our players yet again when against a top team and put under pressure have folded far too easily.

No mobility in this current team, everything is far too slow. With a lack of pace it lets teams keep a high line and squeeze us even further which just makes things even more difficult. Giroud just stands around and hardly moves, hardly wins anything in the air either right now.

We simply do not have the players to cope against the top sides, we can't dominate possession and we can't counter attack right now either. If we want to go with a strong man in the middle we need quick mobile players out wide.

Qwiss

Kel Varnsen wrote:
If Sagna leaves, I want a top class right back brought in. If Sagna stays, I want Monreal gone and someone like Shaw brought in. We need at least one full back who can add to our attack.

Definitely.

I'd like to see Monreal sold off regardless though. He's terrible.

Qwiss

JazzG wrote:
Exactly, he knew exactly how Chelsea would play against us

If that was the case he'd never have started Ox at CM.

Kel Varnsen

Agree with that. We don't even have a long ball option up front. Liverpool, when put under pressure, can hoof the ball 60 yards up the pitch and something might happen because they have strikers who can actually run.

I thought we were better, but a few injuries and this team folded. Too many average players who are not capable of playing the football that we try to play. It makes you wonder wtf Wenger is thinking...

Clrnc

I know Wenger love football and all, but tactically he is way below some of the others. We always play the same way, we never changes our formation so its easy for people to scout and exploit our weakness.

Look at Rodgers and Liverpool, their squad isn't better than us yet they are doing better than us. They constantly change their formation throughout the season and fit their personnels into it, be it 3-5-2, 4-3-3, 4-1-3-2 or now their 4-4-2 diamond. You have to be flexible.

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
I know Wenger love football and all, but tactically he is way below some of the others. We always play the same way, we never changes our formation so its easy for people to scout and exploit our weakness.

Look at Rodgers and Liverpool, their squad isn't better than us yet they are doing better than us. They constantly change their formation throughout the season and fit their personnels into it, be it 3-5-2, 4-3-3, 4-1-3-2 or now their 4-4-2 diamond. You have to be flexible.

YEp. When they lost Couthinho to injury months ago everyone thought they'd fall away because they'd been playing through him so much but Rodgers changed things to get more from SAS and Sturridge and they've gotten even better.

Where as we lose Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshere, Ozil and we still play the exact same way. Trying to force square pegs into round holes.

JazzG

When they lost Coutinho they also dropped a lot of points but the point remains when you have players like Suarez & Sturridge in this kind of form the service doesn't have to be world class. Seen a couple of their goals today and just came from two hoofs up the pitch.

qs! wrote:
JazzG wrote:
Exactly, he knew exactly how Chelsea would play against us

If that was the case he'd never have started Ox at CM.

He expected a lot better from him, Ox is usually good under pressure and quite mobile but today his game went to pieces.

Qwiss

JazzG wrote:
When they lost Coutinho they also dropped a lot of points but the point remains when you have players like Suarez & Sturridge in this kind of form the service doesn't have to be world class. Seen a couple of their goals today and just came from two hoofs up the pitch.

qs! wrote:
If that was the case he'd never have started Ox at CM.

He expected a lot better from him, Ox is usually good under pressure and quite mobile but today his game went to pieces.

Not in midfield he isn't. Last week he was a mess there and its no surprise he did the exact same things today. It was a massive gamble and a very attack minded choice. It was a ludicrous risk against Chelsea in SB. And shows exactly what his mentality today was.

y va marquer

It was a good save to be fair.

Jesus Christ there is an infuriating pr*** presenting on the radio phone-in football show.
Big time wind-up to Arsenal fans to kick-off .
First Arsenal fan who rings in slates Per and Kos, Per for being too slow, Kos for being full of mistakes.

ebouefan

That's actually going wide 😆

Kel Varnsen

He was pretty good against Everton I think it was, but I agree, he isn't good enough on the ball to play in central midfield. Too many technical and tactical errors.

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