Youth team development: Page 152 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Youth team development

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

I think you are largely correct, Ricky. I think many of us are just so fed up with the state of our first team squad.

Still though, this bunch of youngsters is much more promising than ones in bygone days.

Hunter

Ricky1985 wrote:
What do you envisage happening when you say we must "take advantage"?

As I'm sure you know, Chelsea have dominated at U18 level, FA Youth Cup included (which our U18s got nowhere near this year), and yet none of those players have got anywhere near their squad, let alone their first XI. Hudson-Odoi is the only one to get close and he's nowhere near good enough currently. Chelsea receive lots of criticism for this, but I think it's not appreciated just how good you have to be to come through as a teenager and play at the level of a Champions League team (or one seriously aspiring to be) and hold your own.

Personally, the only player I have seen that I think has a definite chance of making it at Arsenal is Reiss Nelson. I really like Emile Smith-Rowe, Bukayo Saka, Joe Willock, Eddie Nketiah and Danny Ballard, but they're all multiple seasons (and probably loans) away from even having a hope of being Arsenal players, if they even have it in them to begin with.

I haven't seen anything particularly impressive from the rest, even if there is some good talent there. Indeed, if we end up with one legitmate Champions League level player from the 40 players that currently make up our U23s, U18s and U16s we would have done very well.

I'd urge you to temper your expectations.

The reason Chelsea dominate and have by far the best academy in England is that they manage to produce quality defensive players as well as attackers - watch out for Reece James next season, he’s the Hudson-Odoi of defenders. The only defender I really rate at the club is Daley-Campbell and he’s been tapped up by a Bundesliga club and will leave in the summer.

Honestly though, there’s not been anything quite like this Arsenal u18 team in the league, they scored 86 goals in 22 games, nearing 4 a game, quite ridiculous really.

As for our best prospects and how they should be used, I think Nelson has served his time on loan and should be in the squad next season. Willock and Nketiah need solid loans whilst I’d like to see ESR stay in Germany for a full season. The next group are very talented, Saka, Amaechi and John-Jules are now dominating at u23 level, not sure if they’re ready for loans but they are all top talents. Beneath them you have Greenwood, Azeez and Musah who are among the best English prospects at u17 level.

All those names mentioned above as well as Okonkwo in goal who’s already attracting attention abroad are as good as any young English talent around, seriously, they are all regulars for strong England youth teams.

flobaba

Heard it all before.

Hunter

We haven’t had talent like this in a decade so that’s surprising.

flobaba

Jack Wilshere had more talent and buzz than all the people you have listed. There’s too much that can go wrong in a young player’s career at this stage - injuries, lack of focus and commitment to make it at senior level, lack of discipline, etc.

If I were a betting man I’d wager 80% of your “best talent in a decade” doesn’t make it here.

Hunter

Jack Wilshere won the youth cup in 2009.... like I said we haven’t produced this much talent in a decade.

Not sure why you’re so negative about these lads, they can’t do much more than they’re doing, I’ve seen a lot of them and they are brilliant players.

Claudius

Yeah, Flobs. These guys look better than recent pipeline. That said, it’s unreasonable to expect most of them to make it. If we see 2 or 3 of them playing regularly in 4 years that’s a win. If we cash in on a few more, even better. The problem is that recently we haven’t even be able to produce players of the quality that a mid table team would want to buy.

It’s a good sign that young players like ESR and Nelson are getting placed in good foreign clubs.

Bold Tone

Hunter wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
...

The reason Chelsea dominate and have by far the best academy in England is that they manage to produce quality defensive players as well as attackers - watch out for Reece James next season, he’s the Hudson-Odoi of defenders. The only defender I really rate at the club is Daley-Campbell and he’s been tapped up by a Bundesliga club and will leave in the summer.

...

I've often wondered why this is the case and often blamed the coaching staff.
Every time i've watched our youth teams, our defence is as porous as a sieve and we the only way we win is to score at least 4 goals.
In the premiership era, i can only remember Bellerin and Cole as the only defenders who have truly made it to our first team from the academy.

goon

flobaba wrote:
Jack Wilshere had more talent and buzz than all the people you have listed. There’s too much that can go wrong in a young player’s career at this stage - injuries, lack of focus and commitment to make it at senior level, lack of discipline, etc.

If I were a betting man I’d wager 80% of your “best talent in a decade” doesn’t make it here.

Thing is 20% would be great. If you can integrate 3-4 players into the squad from one crop that’s a great success.

DiabyKungFu

Bold Tone wrote:
Hunter wrote:
The reason Chelsea dominate and have by far the best academy in England is that they manage to produce quality defensive players as well as attackers - watch out for Reece James next season, he’s the Hudson-Odoi of defenders. The only defender I really rate at the club is Daley-Campbell and he’s been tapped up by a Bundesliga club and will leave in the summer.

...

In the premiership era, i can only remember Bellerin and Cole as the only defenders who have truly made it to our first team from the academy.

Kieran Gibbs made 230 Arsenal first-team appearances. Johan Djourou made 140 Arsenal first-team appearances.

Bold Tone

Those were an indictment of the shite coming through.
That they played so many games explains our defence.

BTW, Congratulations

Ricky1985

Hunter wrote:
The reason Chelsea dominate and have by far the best academy in England is that they manage to produce quality defensive players as well as attackers - watch out for Reece James next season, he’s the Hudson-Odoi of defenders. The only defender I really rate at the club is Daley-Campbell and he’s been tapped up by a Bundesliga club and will leave in the summer.

So he'll be used in nothing games here and there next season then? Those Europa League forwards must be quaking in their boots.

But, seriously, I've seen a fair bit of Reece James: Only once for Wigan but numerous times in youth football and I'll say now that, whilst he stood out a mile at that level, he has almost no chance of making it at Chelsea. Furthermore, there's a danger of his not making much of his career at all due to the fact that he was plenty big enough to dominate as a centreback at youth level, but it's very unlikely that a guy that's just 5'10" (at an absolute push 5'11") and not particularly quick makes it as a CB in the Premier League. And his technical ability is not close to good enough for any respectable PL team as a midfielder. Not got the game for a right back either.

I agree on Daley-Campbell: Massive shame if the rumours are to be believed. He is still very, very raw though and would not have been a serious option here for a number of years/loans, if he ever would have been.

As I said previously, Danny Ballard is the defensive prospect I have my eye on.

Hunter

Smith Rowe missed out yesterday with his groin again, worrying tbh.

Azeez and Greenwood have been called up for the u17 Euros, not sure about Musah as he’s had passport issues recently, he’s usually first choice (and captain) when included though.

Ray

The chances of youth making it here now has increased because the club as a whole has declined. We need more youngsters to fill squad spaces because we can’t afford to spend for example £20m on a backup central midfielder/defender. 5/10/15 years ago transfer prices were still reasonable, and the club had CL revenue. Especially with Kroenke now fully in charge of the self sustainable model.

speedy

It has but on the other hand the lesser prem teams all have great players now, and competition at the top is fierce. Any manager here that finishes outside the top 4 is very close to getting fired. It's a tough situation to bring youngsters through, while loans provide the game time without costing the manager his job. I think we'll see more and more loans, and were probably already seeing that.

goon

U18s lost 5-2 against Derby at the final hurdle, but a couple of great finishes from Saka again.

Ricky1985

He's light years ahead of the rest.

Ray

I see Donyell Malen has been doing well at PSV. Another Gnabry?

Klaus

Ricky1985 wrote:
He's light years ahead of the rest.

Do you rate Saka righer than Smith-Rowe?

goon

Ray wrote:
I see Donyell Malen has been doing well at PSV. Another Gnabry?

Malen is garbage.

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