The YouTube Thread: Page 5 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

The YouTube Thread

Captain

He's developed bad habits since then. He's much more individualistic now.

Don Pacifico

True that but if anything, I'd say you need a bit of individualism from an AM; problem is, Cesc isn't a great dribbler or shooter.

I can however still see improvement to come in both those areas.

Captain

I think Cesc is a great dribbler to be honest, problem is that he lacks that little bit of extra pace whereby once you have beaten a man he won't get back at you. There are two things that Cesc does wrong in my opinion; firstly, he holds onto the ball for a while now because he always wants to go forward. In itself that isn't a problem but if we take Barcelona for instance, their strength is in circulating the ball quickly. Backwards, sideways, it doesn't really matter as long as it is 1-2 touches and then move on. Secondly, because he has developed that dribbling power, Cesc is inclined to take the ball on himself half of the time when it isn't the best option now.

Don Pacifico

Well if we're talking ball control, then yeah, I agree he can dribble but he hasn't got other attributes (namely pace of strength) to fully realise that ability. Perhaps though, he can take a leaf out of Bergkamp's books though. Dennis didn't like to take on multiple defenders but he was happy enough to beat one or two and then push play on (either with a pass or a shot). If Fabregas can refine his dribbling in that way, I think it could definitely benefit us.

Either that or he tries to work on his physical deficiencies.

Captain

Cesc has running power now.

GaelForce

Yeah, Cesc has become a fantastic dribbler in the last 12-18 months. Got a lot more strength/power to his game now:

est

You don't suddenly become a good dribbler. His close control and dribbling has always been fantastic, but the difference is that he now has running power, as Captain pointed out.

If he was a little bit bigger and faster, he'd be very close to being the perfect footballer!

Don Pacifico

Watched 2.5 minutes of that Cesc comp and there are some nice bits (namely his off-the-ball runs, which have never been an issue and occasional sidesteps away from opposition players) but it's hardly the stuff of Maradona. I know I'm usually harsh on Cesc but I struggle to see much of any real comment particularly as most of what I saw were runs unchallenged.

Ricky1985

Captain wrote:
Klaus wrote:
There's exactly one guy who's better than him, but he's 31 next month and didn't really start to produce the goods until his mid-twenties.

It was a great performance by Cesc. I can't believe he got less than fifteen percent of the votes in the man of the match poll.

Lampard, if you care to call him a midfielder, is better. Essien too.

Cesc is definitely among the very best though.

I'm with Klaus. Xavi's the best there is, Fabregas isn't too far behind, but I think everyone else is a pretty long way below. Lampard's a long way off that level in my view.

Clrnc

Lampard is more efficient though. Gerrard on his day is up there with the best as well.

Claudius

Lampard's an excellent midfielder. Hardworking and very productive on the goal / assist front. He's also disciplined, which I think is the key differentiation from Gerrard's style of play. I find the Liverpudlian to employ a helter-skelter, all-about-me style where he is positionally indisciplined, does not do as much defensive work as he could.

Klaus

Lampard is great and has, in my opinion, been one of the top midfielders in the world for several years. Gerrard is hideously overrated.

Ricky1985

Lampard has been GREAT, I agree completely, but still not even close to the level Xavi has been at for about 3 or 4 years, or the level Fabregas is capable of at his very best.

Lukazan

Fabregas is brilliant and only second to Xavi. Captain isn't wrong for bringing up Lampard's name though. Often underrated by many but he's right up there.

As for Gerrard, please..

est

Am I the only one who really doesn't think Xavi is that much better than Fabregas? I'd even go as far as saying that without his hamstring problems, he would have surpassed him already.

Lampard's brilliant as well. Consistently racking up tons of goals and assists. I'll echo Luka's sentiments on Gerrard though.

Claudius

Xavi is ridiculously good. Fabregas still has some ways to go in terms of being able to distribute the ball as efficiently as Xavi does. Fabregas certainly has the same range, and is better than Xavi at taking on players and scoring goals, but at distribution, Xavi is peerless

est

But is that enough to make him a better player?

goon

Gerrard is better than Lampard if you ask me, at least at their best. Bear in mind one has been playing in one of the best squads in history while the other has been playing for Liverpool.

Lampards stats are a little misleading too, a huge number of his goals last season for example came from penalties, and a large number of his assists come from set plays.

Gerrard has much more in his locker, probably more erratic too which is what lets him down, but on his day he's an absolute beast.

est

But there are plenty of players that are unplayable 'on their day'. Arshavin springs to mind immediately. I doubt that anyone considers him when talking about the best wingers/forwards.

goon

Well yeah, but we're talking about someone who scored 25 goals or so just a couple of seasons ago, and nearly lead Liverpool to the league title, not someone who performs once every other month. Not a one off either, he's consistantly scored 20 goals a season or so for Liverpool as well as racking up a few assists.

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