Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger out!: Page 176 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger out!

Captain

We have outperformed our spend, in virtually any metric you can look at, consistently for the last 15 years. It's an extraordinary record. So we are doing something right in the way that we spend although it may frustrate some people. We are doing something right and we are very thoughtful about it.

asajoseph

You say "potato", I say "po-tah-to", I say "disciplined about his beliefs", I say "idealistic to the point of delusion".

goon

asajoseph wrote:
It's a step up, but it's really just more of the same - posturing. Gazidis is good with words, not so good with actions. I understand the temptation to get excited, but we've been burned by this tosser before.

He's been pretty consistent all the way through in my opinion, he's always said it would be a few years till we can compete with the best financially and that year has arrived.

Whether or not it's just words remains to be seen (I'm fairly certain there's 100's of 'smart' Arsenal fans out there who've already claimed this is an attempt to sell season tickets), but I'm fairly certain it isn't.

flobaba

Less talk, more action is all flobaba asks.

Patters

As far as I can see, he's still mostly talking about the future. He says we can't compete with the likes of Bayern now but we plan to in the future. I think there has been a slight change in the thinking recently. Ultimately, we'll only be convinced by actions now and we'll be waiting for the championship managery signings. I think getting Theo to sign was a step in the right direction. A bigger signal in the transfer market would really get the fans on side.

asajoseph

otfgoon wrote:
asajoseph wrote:
It's a step up, but it's really just more of the same - posturing. Gazidis is good with words, not so good with actions. I understand the temptation to get excited, but we've been burned by this tosser before.

He's been pretty consistent all the way through in my opinion, he's always said it would be a few years till we can compete with the best financially and that year has arrived.

Well, apart from the quote I just posted for starters.

Gazza M

from what i can gather he's putting the onus on wenger more obviously than in he has done in the past. it's the closest he's come to saying "there is plenty of money, but arsene chooses not to spend it"

y va marquer

What excites Arsene isn't necessarily what excites you Patters but "he has new tools available to him financially" and Ivan thinks "he'll make good use of them."

goon

asajoseph wrote:
otfgoon wrote:
He's been pretty consistent all the way through in my opinion, he's always said it would be a few years till we can compete with the best financially and that year has arrived.

Well, apart from the quote I just posted for starters.

Which one?

Captain

"Ok...there's an awful lot of hypotheticals you can come up with with every club about wouldn't you rather have this guy, who turned out to be a bargain, rather than these three guys who turned out not to be a bargain and cost just as much. You can go through every single club and find your examples of that. The way to assess whether a club is doing it well or not? I don't know any other measure to see whether a club does that well or does it poorly, than to look at their overall spending and compare it against their performance and when we do that with Arsenal, every single year, we outperform our spend.

"It's very possible to do it for a couple of years, either because you spend money a certain way or because you are lucky, it is extraordinary difficult to do that consistently over time. It doesn't happen by accident. We get criticised a lot because we are perceived as somehow foolish with some of our choices, or not ambitious with some of our choices. I don't think that is fair criticism. I think we do this, not as well as we can, we need to improve, every club needs to improve, but I think on any objective measure we do this well."

asajoseph

otfgoon wrote:
asajoseph wrote:
Well, apart from the quote I just posted for starters.

Which one?

The one from 2010 where he says:

"We have money to invest in the transfer market".

Captain

Of course we have money. 😆

The point is and always was, how much?

goon

asajoseph wrote:
otfgoon wrote:
Which one?

The one from 2010 where he says:

"We have money to invest in the transfer market".

You don't think we did? He's not exactly saying what have bucket loads.

Patters

y va marquer wrote:
What excites Arsene isn't necessarily what excites you Patters but "he has new tools available to him financially" and Ivan thinks "he'll make good use of them."

Well lets hope so.

I don't want to sound whiny but in reality I don't think this is how billion-dollar (sorry for the americanism) companies operate. It's not like a switch where "Oh, we've a £30m a year kit deal...now we can spend...". This would all be accounted for before. The future is never that unknown for the big players. If not puma and £30m, it'd be someone else at £25m or whatever. And taking that into account, you don't wait to spend until you have the money if you're sitting on such massive assets.

Maybe we do have more clarity about future income streams and maybe we are in a better position financially. But will the difference be - going from gaining profits from the transfer window to £30-40m losses (or investment)? It just seems very inconsistent from my viewpoint. Either we didn't need to be that cautious in the past or we're not going to be that competitive in the near future. As I say, I don't think many will be convinced until real actions indicate a new trend.

y va marquer

Captain wrote:
"Ok...there's an awful lot of hypotheticals you can come up with with every club about wouldn't you rather have this guy, who turned out to be a bargain, rather than these three guys who turned out not to be a bargain and cost just as much. You can go through every single club and find your examples of that. The way to assess whether a club is doing it well or not? I don't know any other measure to see whether a club does that well or does it poorly, than to look at their overall spending and compare it against their performance and when we do that with Arsenal, every single year, we outperform our spend.

Outperforming our spend means we take big risks by not spending enough on our squad.
As we clearly saw this season.

That may be doing well in terms of player trading and securing CL revenue but if you assess doing well by measuring your team in terms of games won, titles won then obviously we're not so hot.
Why am I even saying this?
None of this is really new.

Anyway after reading the Q&A more closely I deduce that the plan is that this will be a summer to consolidate and build, as opposed to a summer of dismantling upheavals.
Which I kind of suspected before reading Ivan's words anyway.
He's actually quite a dull read.

Captain

You're making the mistake of lumping every year since we moved in the same pot.

There was a very distinct period where we had no money, and then there was a much shorter period where we had some money and the potential to loan more if we wanted.

They decided not to and let Wenger drag them through (willingly) to this point now, where we have significant funds to spend on the playing side.

It was a mistake in some ways and a big gamble, but they pulled it off.

asajoseph

otfgoon wrote:
asajoseph wrote:
The one from 2010 where he says:

"We have money to invest in the transfer market".

You don't think we did? He's not exactly saying what have bucket loads.

After selling Cesc, Nasri, Song & Van Persie? No, I don't.

Captain

y va marquer wrote:
Captain wrote:

Outperforming our spend means we take big risks by not spending enough on our squad.
As we clearly saw this season.

That may be doing well in terms of player trading and securing CL revenue but if you assess doing well by measuring your team in terms of games won, titles won then obviously we're not so hot.

Well no, that's not quite what it means. You'll see why if you consider what you wrote.

But anyway, he covers everything that you said in the Q&A. He pretty much covers everything that anyone has ever said for the last few seasons.

Burnwinter

What I took from that Mirror transcript:

There are no strict spending rules and never have been, Wenger is "not advised", Wenger makes the decisions based on his personal beliefs. Gazidis uses "we" a couple of times, indicating he is in the tent with Wenger.
Gazidis can't see us winning the league without improvements.
Gazidis compares us to Bayern but doesn't think we're actually close to Bayern yet.
"Our squad has outperformed our spend". Gazidis says we're "ahead of plan" off the field but quietly omits that we're clearly "behind plan" on it.
The Puma deal and other commercial deals are happening and have been a major part of strategic thinking.

Since it's obvious Ivan doesn't have personal control over who we sign, he can't really say anything authoritative.

I would say he's quite downbeat about our prospects next season - says we'll compete but probably not win, and repeatedly says that we're not in the same category as our rivals.

banduan

Captain wrote:
It was a mistake in some ways and a big gamble, but they pulled it off.

Yes, they did, but this does not make the gamble any more palatable.
I think it was incredulous.

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